Saw set for Backsaws

Re: Saw set for Backsaws

Brad in Ottawa

>Derek,

If you read Eddie's advice on the Adria site it is similar to the LN advice. Get a Stanley 42 or 42x. Eddie also recommends the Somax sawset from LV.

They important thing that Eddie recommends is grind/file down the plunger as they are too wide for some of the smaller teeth (especially on the Adria/LN dovetail backsaws.) This is why you may believe that some sawsets are only good to 12 tpi.

I have and use both the Stanley 42x and 42... I don't use pay attention to the setting for #tpi as it does not reflect what the saw is to be used for. Personally, I love the 42x for the vise action that engages the saw prior to the plunger setting action.

I would recommend the following procedure for setting fine backsaws. Adjust the sawset to put the least amount of set possible and test it on a couple of teeth. (You may not want to do this on your nice LN though!) If you desire more set, increase the set accordingly or stone some off if you have too much.

As to the LN being hard to start... I could not tell you why, but I do know it is not from too much set!!! They already have a minimal amount of set to ensure that the saw tracks well in the wood, helping you cut a straight line. If you were to remove set there wouldn't be any clearance and your saw will bind.

Hope this helps!

Brad

PS - Sorry for being longwinded and rambling, haven't had coffee yet!

Re: Saw set for Backsaws

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Fantastic response Brad. And before coffee!! What are you like when you have had a cup! :)

Question: what is the difference between the 42 and 42X?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Stanley 442 *LINK*

David Miller from Iowa

>Stanley made a saw set for finer saw teeth, the 442. I've bought a couple of these - usually in near mint condition, for $10-$15. Watch eBay for a month and one will come on.


Picture of Stanley 442

Re: Saw set for Backsaws *LINK*

Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO

>Derek,

I think that you are finding a steeper rake angle on the teeth of the LN saw makes it harder to start a cut. This also makes it cut faster once a kerf is established. I am not sure of the rake angle on these saws, but it is probably less than six degrees. I file mine to six degrees, which is a good compromise for me. Most crosscut saws are filed to a higher rake angle which makes them start more easily. A tooth with a rake angle of zero has a front edge at 90 degrees to the blade edge.

As to the difference between the Stanley 42 and 42X sawsets... Stanley seems to have changed the naming somewhat over time. Some that are marked 42 look exactly like others marked 42X, while others, which are also marked 42, are quite different. I have linked a thread from the Old Tools group archives which highlights some of these differences.

Regards,

Ted


Stanley sawset thread from Old Tools Archives

Re: Saw set for Backsaws

L. Hanson - N. Idaho

>Brad's comments are right on, IME. Here's a couple of my thoughts that hopefully might add something to the discussion.

As far as a saw being hard to start, there are a couple of things... First, lift about 1/2 of the weight of the saw off of the stock when first starting the cut, this will help with starting somewhat. Start at a slightly less oblique angle at first as well, then you can raise the angle as the cut gets going.

The rake angle often is what makes the difference in how a saw cuts and how it starts:

A more agressive rake angle, like the top one, will start harder than the less aggressive one pictured at the bottom. It will also cut faster - and the opposite is also true. Easing back the rake angle will make it start easier, but cut slower.

Many experienced users prefer the more aggressive cut, but Disston did start easing the rake angle on their rip saws after 1900 or so to the 8 degree angle. I've even known a few fellows who prefer a 15 degree rake for fine work so they have more control over starting the saw.

On set, too much set will make a saw want to wander, and it will be hard to control. Too little set, and the saw will bind. Harder woods need less set, softer woods need more, and wet woods need more yet.

A smoother cut can be established by first over-setting the teeth just a little bit, then using a stone to remove a bit of that set - which basically evens out the teeth at the same time.

A saw that tracks to one side probably has too much set on that side, or has been sharpened a little off kilter. This can sometimes be straightened out by stoning the side of the teeth that the saw tracks to, reducing the set on that one side.

HTH some... I think I'll try to put together something on my web site about tuning a handsaw. I'll see if I can get something together this weekend.

Leif

www.norsewoodsmith.com

Re: Saw set for Backsaws

paul womack

>...Eclipse No. 77, which is rated up to 12 tpi. ...

Buy another, and modify:

modification technique halfway down page.

BugBear