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Bevel up planes

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Bevel up planes

#1

Bevel up planes

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>I bought a second blade for my LN low angle jack and put a high angle on the bevel. While it does work well on difficult maple, it is much harder to push the plane. Is it the same way with a high angle frog on a bevel down plane? The plane is nice to have in those cases where it works but it's not something I want to use all the time. This experience tends to make me doubt all the high praise that's been given bevel up high angle planes somewhat. Yes they solve a problem, but something is given up too.

Re: Bevel up planes

#2

Re: Bevel up planes

Skip in Falls Church

>That's the way it generally works - the higher the angle, the harder it is to push. OTOH, I agree it is nice to have a good high angle plane when you need it.

Skip

Re: Bevel up planes

#3

Re: Bevel up planes

Rob Lee

>Hi Patrick -

Increasing the bevel angle does require more force to be applied .... but a LA plane at 45 degrees will require the same force as a high angle plane at 45 degrees...

The increased resistence is not a function of the plane type...

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Bevel up planes

#4

Re: Bevel up planes

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Patrick, keep in mind that HA planes (both bevel up and bevel down) are used to meet a specific need, that is, to deal with difficult grain. If you don't have this need, then a lower angle cutting angle will not only be easier to use, but probably provide a superior surface (viz lower slicing angle).

The hoopla about bevel up planes is not simply about LA vs HA. It is about the superior bedding of bevel up planes giving rise to a superior performance, as well as their greater range of uses.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Bevel up planes

#5

Re: Bevel up planes

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>It seems to me that the important point here is that the bevel up or bevel down plane at a high angle will have the same resistance to pushing. In that case, the superior bedding and lower cost of a bevel up plane are factors in their favor. Am I wrong about this judgement?

Re: Bevel up planes

#6

Re: Bevel up planes

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Patrick

The superior bedding and potential superior performance - right. Lower cost? Mmmm - Holtey brought one out a while back, as did Bridge City. :)

There have been a few reviews of the LN and LV versions. Have you read them. I did one as well about a week or so ago.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Bevel up planes

#7

Re: More factors

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>All the earlier comments have been right on. I'd just add that for a given wood the actual effort is a factor of blade width and blade extension, as well as effective cutting angle. It is also mitigated by plane mass and grip.

Blade width is obvious. You are taking a big bite with the wide blade in most jack planes, and thus greater resistance. This is partially mitigated by the greater mass of jack planes and heavier smoothers, which is one reason even in the Jack plane size the heavy LV version feels a bit better to use with very high effective cutting angles than the lighter L-N version. Lighter planes, like most woodies, do better with high effective cutting angles if their blades are two inches or less.

Blade extention is obvious for much the same reasons. Greater blade extension again means a bigger bite. If you are going to be clearing away a lot of wood in each stroke, you want the lowest effective cutting angle you can get by with consistent with edge retention. On the flip side, when high effective cutting angles are most desirable is for final finishing when very light cuts are taken. Those light cuts reduce the bite and thus the resistance. Thus the take home here is you want a smoother and a jointer capable of providing high effective cutting angles, but you want lower angles for more general dimensioning work.

As touched on above, having a heavier plane will allow you to develop more momentum on your forward stroke. This will allow for longer forward strokes and allow you to plow through areas of varying resistance easier than lighter planes. However, quite light woodies work very well at extremely high effective cutting angles, particularly if they are pulled.

So for me the matter is not that high effective cutting angles are universally better, but rather than one be able to have a choice of effective cutting angles and match the angle to the task at hand.

Re: Bevel up planes

#8

TANSTAAFL

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Of course. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Physics cannot be bypassed:-)JR

Re: Bevel up planes

#9

Re: More factors

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>If I can add...when taking a rank cut, you may most likely be making a short stroke. This might make the added weight of a heavy plane unnecessary (or undesirable) for this task, as the added effort to get the plane's mass going doesn't really pay dividends when taking a short stroke. This might make a lighter woodie more desirable (atleast to me) when doing brute work.

Regards

Jonathan

Re: Bevel up planes

#10

Re: Bevel up planes

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>In apples-to-apples comparisons, yes... *grin*

The LABU versions from LN *are* cheaper than the BD "bench" planes of similar style/function. The difference is substantial.

LV's are also cheaper, but much less so.

Cheers,

Greg

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