need some advice

Re: need some advice

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>I don't worry about spelching when exiting the cheek, since I make my tenons a little shorter than my mortises, for adjusting the fit up and down during glue-up. I would worry if I were making through tenons, because then the break out would show.

The #140, since it has a skewed blade, has a bit less tendency to remove wood from the end of the tenon than the other planes discussed, and also some other useful planes so far not discussed, including the #10, #10 1/4 (prohibitively expensive Stanley version, and just expensive L-N version), #10 1/2, and even wooden rabbet planes.

If spelching is a concern to any of you, Lyn's recommendation to get both #140's, and work from both ends of the tenon towards the middle, makes a lot of sense.

Like Pam, I can use both hands, and can either push or pull when necessary, but since my left hand predominates, I prefer the original #140, with the removable plate on the right side, for trimming cheeks.

Re: need some advice

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Some limited spelching isn't all that harmful, I suppose, and most of it can be avoided by chamfering the corners; but I'm a little too compulsive to feel comfortable with it, seems like one of those habits I'd be sorry for when it is harmful and I forget to worry about it, like on through tenons or when a major portion of the narrow part of the tenon gets blown out.

Lyn's solution is fine and would work for me; but it's been real hard convincing myself to spend a couple hundred dollars when the 073 does the job so well. That's the advantage of a huge shoulder plane.

Pam

The low tech approach

Bob Hackett

>Instead of spending a couple hundred dollars for a very specialized plane I`m surprised nobody here is pushing the wood rebate plane idea.

I have better than 1/2 dozen with skewed irons(2 have bronze soles) in excellent shape and don`t have even close to $100 in the whole lot.

They`re not really all that hard to make friends with.

Mainely,Bob

Re: The low tech approach

paul womack

>I`m surprised nobody here is pushing the wood rebate plane idea.

Who're you calling nobody!?

BugBear (who pushed exactly that)

Re: The low tech approach

Tony Z.

>I may go with the low-tech approach if I'm spending my money--it may take some effort to locate an appropriate woodie nearby. Would a Stanley 39 be an appropriate subsitute? I happen to know where a 3/4" wide version is available. I have no experience with any 39's.

My original question was posed because of my Wife asking what she should buy for me for Christmas.

T.Z.

Re: The low tech approach

Bob Hackett

>I heard you mention it,I didn`t hear anybody push it.Must be your low key approach isn`t getting though again.

Maybe I shouldn`t be pushing this myself.As long as folks ARE willing to spend several hundred for those iron planes I`ll be able to pick up as many of these old woodies as I want/need for less than $10 each,and that`s with good irons.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.;^)

Mainely,Bob

The first rule of plane buying.

Bob Hackett

>1) When spending someone else`s money,always ask Carl Holtey for advice.

MB

: )

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>

Re: The low tech approach

Tony Z.

>It was pure Karma a few minutes ago. Over on the Oldtool forum, a post just came up listing a skew woodie with a 2" iron for $15.00. I messaged the seller if it was still available that I would take it.

Cheap price to experiment!

My Wife is skeptical enough of my "hobby", that getting several hundred out of her for a Christmas present is already pushing it! This, in spite of me having her make some shavings a few weeks ago! She's stayed out of the shop ever since! I really don't think I "need" the 140. Quite frankly, I really think I'm already pretty well equipped. But that don't mean I don't "want" some new "toys".

Re: The low tech approach

paul womack

>listing a skew woodie with a 2" iron for $15.00.

Here's some non trivial advice on tuning

Oh, and 'scuse the typo. The plane was by Mathieson.

BugBear

Hold the Phone!

Patrick Gibbons, mcgdogm, no Astros in the WS, TX

>Let me play devil's advocate. Why do you need anything else? The Veritas shoulder plane should trim cheeks as well as shoulders. How about a chisel? Or use a regular block plane and trim towards the shoulder with a chisel? Or use a 78 or 778 rabbet plane? Or a chisel? Do you really make wide tenons often enough to justify spending money for a dedicated tool? If so why not a 1-1/2" or 2" chisel?

Wooden rabbets

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bugbear,

I read the link you included and am surprised at what appears to be a few obvious omissions. For anyone looking in that didn�t read the link, we�re talking about tuning wooden rabbet planes. Bugbear labels this effort as �non trivial� with which I agree wholeheartedly.

1)I don�t think the taper of the body (body not square to the sole) is intentional. I suspect the taper is purley a function of the quartersawn, heart down, orientation of the stock.

When tuning an old wooden fillester or rebate, you got to take into account the fact that the body has shrunk and the blade has not changed. I think its presence isn�t the problem. The problem you experienced is that it projects too far from the side of the plane. I think you need to leave that arris on the side of the blade, since that will be the corner of your blade next time you sharpen. What you should do is grind off the side of the blade until it matches the body again. I think you�ll find the side of the blade is not tapered, so don�t add any. Again, as you grind the blade away, you need the same width of cut as before or the plane will cease working.

2) I�d like to toss in my idea for squaring a skewed blade in a wood plane. You may not like it. How do you flatten a wooden smoothers sole? Do you plane it? I plane long planes� soles, but I put my smoothers on sand paper on glass. Here it comes. Ready? I�ll understand if this makes your stomach hurt: To straighten a skewed plane iron, I set the plane blade to take the finest possible full width cut then, place the plane on the sand paper and�.yeah, I do. I rub the plane with its blade sticking out on that sand paper until the blade is even with the sole. It makes sense, doesn�t it? The plane�s body is the perfect blade holding jig. I mean, that�s what it is, right? Regrinding and honing the blade after that is a simple affair. Certainly no different than our standard approach.

I should have mentioned that most wooden planes have a little lateral slop. Make sure your plane has some. An old rabbet may have a bit less than its maker intended just because of shrinkage. I have tried grinding a bit of the iron�s tang away to �restore� the maker�s intent, but I don�t anymore (and don�t recommend it). Just make sure the tang is somewhat centered in the body before you go to the sand paper.

Adam

Re: Hold the Phone!

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>You're right, of course; but your assumption that these are tools dedicated to this task is faulty. I got the LN 140 and 073 for other tasks, turns out they're also good for this one. If I had a large LV shoulder or a regular block, I'd use one of those; but I don't.

As to the chisel, that's the way I did it before 140/073. Of course, it's advisable to use the chisel bevel down. DAMHIKT. In fact, if I do happen to have a wider chisel in hand when starting this, I'll probably start with it. It is easier to take off smaller amounts more precisely with one of the planes.

Pam

Re: The low tech approach

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>I mentioned a wooden rabbet plane as well. However, I didn't mention my L-N #073, because I get so much static from people about its size. Of the planes in my shop that would do the job (no additional outlay here, I'm just using what might work), the order of preference for shoulder work would be:

1 - L-N #073

2 - L-N #140

3 - Stanley #10 (especially if it were a very long tenon) 4 - No name 1 5/8" wooden shoulder plane

5 - S. L. James 1 3/4" wooden rabbet plane. The last one had been a door stop, that I kinda rescued. Although missing its fence, it would still work on shoulders, but like a half a pair #140s, from only one direction.

I'd use the old woodies only if I needed to show someone that it could be done that way, because the 073 does the best job.

thank you

dave jeske

>Thank you for the kind words. There are many variations of marking knives and different styles work best in different situations. Like most woodworking tools, you can never have too many, you just need a bigger shop!!

Re: Hold the Phone!

Bob Hackett

>Smaller amount with greater precision?Sounds like a job for a scraper chisel to me.If you can tune the bed of a wood plane with one why not use it to tune a tenon?

I`ve got one each of these in both wide and skewed,you never know what you`re going to run into.

Yet another approach that doesn`t break the bank.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Hold the Phone!

Patrick Gibbons, mcgdogm, no Astros in the WS, TX

>Very good point, Pam. I have to agree with you.

Re: Hold the Phone!

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Go for it, Bob. Want to post a photo of what a scraper chisel is?

It takes a long time to tune a plane's bed, especially Japanese dai which don't have flat beds. And that's what the planes I use buy me, lots of time. As to breaking the bank, when I bought the planes it was economical for me to buy that time. Today, I don't know, it would be a decision.

Pam

Scraper chisel

Bob Hackett

>A scraper chisel is just a chisel that has the end ground and honed to 75 deg or more.Cecil showed me this trick.It`s a whole lot easier than making floats and works just as well.

The only way I could post a pic is if I could get Dr Death over here with his buddy`s camera and then help me post it.

Mainely,Bob

You're in good company, Bob--Link by ALF *LINK*

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Coupla weeks ago, there was a discussion of plane floats on the UK Workshop forum, and ALF posted a fascinating link of an interview with Bill Carter, the famous English planemaker.

When Bill Carter was asked about the use of plane floats, he said he didn't use floats, but rather used a scraper chisel. Just like Bob. He said what he did was take any chisel, heat it to cherry red, quench it, and just leave it superhard. No tempering. He apparently liked to grind the end to about 90 degrees.

His discussion of this point is down at the very bottom of the interview, with the header 'On Truing Beds'.

I thought this was an amazing concept, and was grateful to ALF for posting it.

Wiley


ALF's link to Bill Carter Interview

Re: You're in good company, Bob--Link by ALF

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, guys, I already have one of those, made it a couple of years ago as a strike-through chisel for shoji and for adjusting plane beds and blade abutments. I'm so hide-bound, to me it's a strike-through. :)

In fact, it was a thread on BP (Todd Hughes was involved, explained how to make floats from files, probably Stephen Thomas described it) plus the interview with Bill Carter plus the Inomoto planemaking class that all came together at roughly the same time. Who could resist such a confluence?

Pam