Mortise chisels again!

P.S.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>I apologize for sounding cranky or petulant. It was late (for me).

Keep up the informative postings, and good luck with the book.

Re: Next Time I'll Answer Offline.

Todd Hughes

>Don't know if I ever heard the term "Millwright" chisel to me they just look like some rather ordinary socket Chisels, don't know about "rare", pretty common even in the old tool hell I live in. Look like some good user chisels with a better story.Will be interesting to see what they sell for and if the extra time and trouble to "work" on them pays off.Don't know about the wisdom of epoxying the handles on, believe this would turn off most knowledgable bidders...Again have to hand it to the seller for the "story" don't know if I could have come up a better one myself.Regardless of the merit of the tools being sold or how they were , hmm "restored" I do think it is a good example of how to describe a tool you are selling on Ebay to get the highest price. I feel it is really important to come across that you know what it is that you are selling and that it is great stuff,[even when this might not really be all that true!].This is what sells stuff I think.........Todd , who thinks he might have a few of those rare millwright chisels a lying about

lathe tools

bill tindall

>It seems that hand tool users all become obsessed with some aspect of their trade and mine is sharpening lathe tools. I would be embarassed to have any of you examine my plane irons (I use them until I can't push them any more) but my lathe tool edges are a source of pride. (It's probably a reaction to the crude techniques my bowl turning friends use)

It is not easy to get a refined edge on M2 gouge, or 3V for that matter. The carbides in these things are extraordinarly abrasion resistant. And it is not easy to know the state of the edge without examining it with some magnification. But with a reasonable amount of effort it can be done with a diamond hone, or cheaper yet with diamond powder on a small piece of cast iron. I can make either M2 or 3V as sharp as my carbon steel tools as evidenced by the cleanness of the surface or especially the lack of effort to establish the cut. In fact when they become as sharp as a plane iron I begin to have some control problems until they dull a bit. Now my carbon steel lathe tools sit idle.

chrome-vanadium comparison

bill tindall

>I believe Ron is comparing his carbon steel to a chrome-vanadium alloy like Sears uses and what is used in rust resistant cheap chisels and the like. I don't think Ron is comparing his carbon steel to his A2 in this statement.

You Might Read Further, Bill

Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA

>Not by my reading, Bill...

...chrome and moly are gummy chrome and moly, whether in A2 or C-V...and "better than anything else" is pretty definitive from a gentleman not given to overstatement:

"A2 differs from our usual High Carbon Steel with the addition of significant amounts of chromium and molybdenum. While �stainless� amounts of chromium (12% or more) make tool steel �gummy� and hard to sharpen, the modest amount of chromium in A2 (5%) improves its toughness and abrasion resistance..."

"Tool Steel" refers to a class of steels that are metallurgically very "clean" and fall within strict limits for alloy proportions. Vanadium, tungsten, and molybdenum are often added to tool steels to make the steel resist annealing (softening) when used in "high-speed" (high heat) applications. Chromium is added in very large quantities for corrosion resistance ("stainless"). High-speed steels are essential in metal-working tools (drills, milling cutters, etc.) and "stainless" steels can be cost effective by resisting rust during the manufacture, shipping, and storage of the tool itself. Correctly heat-treated, tools made from high-speed, stainless, and "chrome-vanadium" steels may hold an edge well in woodworking applications, but, due to the large, hard carbide particles that form during hardening, they are difficult to sharpen and cannot be honed as sharply as a blade of plain high-carbon steel. Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it. "

I work with several old experienced hands out here ...mostly non-computer owners with no voice here but lifetime builders, woodworkers and blacksmiths...and our preference for the most part remains the old cast steel. It's dirt cheap on the used tool market, often less the price of raw 0-1 stock, and grandpas's handmedown Nortons hone it with ease to a marvelous edge without having to buy any fancy new sharpening equipment.

Hock carbon blades are popular too, but rarely in preference thicker blades salvaged from old woodies when it's time to make another spar plane...most of that being the difference between 50 bucks and 8 bucks for an good iron set.

We may disagree on some very subjective matters....and that's part of how we learn. But I hope to never refer to a valid opinion I disagree with as "Baloney!"

I do agree that the lathe skews I've been making up lately from old framing chisels are very difficult to use fresh from the stones because they are so sharp. The old cast gouges, however, are pure delight, taking full-length noodles with ease....and rather that bother with diamond pastes and the like, I think I'll simply sell off the HSS tools once I replace them with oldies.

Agreed.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Next Time I'll Answer Offline.

Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA

>If you look at the profiles, it should be obvious which are "firmer" or common "socket" chisels and which are "mortise" chisels.

Left To Right:

1/4 Swan Firmer

1/4 New Haven Edge Tool Mortise

3/8 Keencutter Firmer

3/8 New Haven Mortise

1/2 Witherby Firmer

1/2 New Haven Mortise

Chisel brands

Bob Hackett

>New Haven?As in New Haven Conn.,man those tools are a long ways from home!

Most of the millwright morticing chisels that I`ve picked up around here are either Whitherby or Underhill with an occasional James Swan thrown in.

Once you get one of these in your hand you`ll know the difference between a firmer and it!They`re closer to the traditional"pig stickers" except more than twice as long and a socket so the handle doesn`t have to be wired together after use.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Chisel brands

Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA

>Douglas, Dixon, Swan, New Haven Edge Tool, Ohio Tool, GI Mix, Fulton, Shapleigh's and PS&W are some of the marked ones that have come through my hands for rehab.

A lot of the New Haven's are non-factory marked "USA", which leads me to believe mine were originally a Gov't contract, although you'd think a gov't shipyard's would be marked, "USN" or "Bureau of Ships". They are as nicely finished as anything James Swan or Witherby ever made.

But a number of those companies I've never seen a bench chisel from.

If you find an old millwork, door or window sash operation up there in New England, you may find a number of them still around.

Now my carbon steel lathe tools sit idle.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Are 3V and M2 what are known as HSS alloys?

Are they typical for lathe tools?

For the user, why are they better than carbon steel lathe tools?

I do not have a lathe (yet). Just trying to learn in advance.

Re: Next Time I'll Answer Offline.

paul womack

>Sometimes we lose sight of the bottom line not being the tools.

Who says? :-)

BugBear