Winding Sticks

Dunbar's radical solution

Christopher Schwarz

>I messed with a number of designs for winding sticks until I saw the ones that Mike Dunbar uses. They immediately became my favorite.

He uses aluminum angle from Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever. Cut it to whatever length you want (mine are 36"-long each). Spray paint one black and one white. You're done.

The genius of this design is that they *never* go out of true. And because they rest on your work on two spots (forming a triangle) you can use them easily on curved surfaces.

I love traditional tools, but these have proven better than my wooden ones.

Chris

Re: Dunbar's radical solution

Bob Hackett

>They also fit together one inside the other so they only take up alittle more space in your box than one would.

MB

Showing my ignorance here..

Gary in Vancouver, BC

>I understand the concept of using winding sticks, kind of. Maybe it's my method of work. When taking a rough board to dimenish I first lay it on a flat surface and check for high spots by rocking the corners to determine which corners on the undersurface need to be handplaned down. Once the board no longer rocks, I run it through the thickness planer. Would the winding sticks be used to check the top surface for handplaning instead of running it through the thickness planer?

Keep it simple

David Miller from Iowa

>I'm just some guy from Iowa, but a couple reasonably straight sticks ought to do it unless the lighting is bad:)

An even simpler guy from Arkansas

Christopher Schwarz

>Maybe I'm not following the thread correctly David, but getting "reasonably straight sticks" is a challenge. I find it simplest to use something that's dirt cheap and never ever needs truing.

Or maybe you're referring to the processes in the intial post. I can't tell. If so, sorry.

Chris

Re: An even simpler guy from Arkansas

Brian in Merritt BC

>I have read and I have used Dunbar's approach to winding sticks before. I just love the look and feel of real wood and since I went out and bought some rather expensive Rosewood for this project, I thought some of you might have an idea as to a good design. I want to make something a little more inspirational than the couple of painted extruded aluminium strips even if these are extremley functional.

As for what they are used for Gary, to check for a board that is twisted. I am dimensioning boards by hand and I too make sure that the board does not rock from side to side or front to back, but then I flip the thing over and surface the other side of the board. Then you check for twist and that becomes your reference surface for all other operations. I too use those tailed devices from time to time, but I find the quiet and physical demands of traditional woodworking very appealing to me. If you are interested in learning more, send me an email and I will send some pictures to you.

Anyone interested in this style of woodworking would be very wise to get a copy of Rob Cosman's video (or DVD) from Rough to Ready. I learned a ton of new techniques from this one episode. I am not affiliated, but Rob is my Canadian Plane "pusher" and I am his "Junkie!"

Brian

No...

Scott Burr Ben Lomond,CA

>The winding sticks make sure your putting a flat handplaned board thru the planer. Your forgetting about the ever slight twist (and concave, convex visuals too) curverture along the board also.

I'll talk for Bill H. here...

Scott Burr Ben Lomond,CA

>This is an excellent jod for old 3' leveles...

Cheap too.

Re: Dunbar's radical solution

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>The man's talkin rosewood with maybe something nice for inlay and you come up with aluminum angle iron. I pretty much fell off my seat laughing. I'm still laughin I can see pulling out the angle iron. I like the divided top ones and think that if you can find scraps of Corian to install they seem to be the brightest white substance and you can handplane it nicely.

Re: An even simpler guy from Arkansas

David Miller from Iowa

>Reviewing the thread, the intended use of the winding sticks was never stated. One cannot evaluate the efficacy of a tool outside the context of its use.

I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that their primary use was for evaluating the top of a workbench. If that is not the intended use, my remarks are withdrawn.

If, however, that is indeed the reason for using winding sticks, my personal standard for having a "dead flat" workbench top is for assembly. Frankly, the limitations of my mediocre skill in making the piece far outweigh the downside of having a bench that is a few thousandths off because my winding sticks were not extruded from a factory at tight tolerances.

The use of the sticks stipulate the degree of precison needed. I'm just not skilled to the piont that the variation that meter bar quality winding sticks are the limiting factor in my work, but I do I envy those who reach that level.

Let's not let the tools get ahead of what we are trying to accomplish.

David

PS - fire away at this inadvertant hijack of Brian's legitimate post

Beat me to it

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Mine are actually 2 foot, garage sale wonders at $1 for one and free for the other. One even came painted black. I recently, just for ducks, knocked out the (not) level vials, so no one could confuse them with levels.

They're ugly, and those who like pretty tools would be fully justified in making rosewood winding sticks with maple/holly/something else bright inlays, but they do get the job done.

More bottom feeding thoughts

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Before I tripped over the two levels, I had purchased, also at a garage sale, an assemble-it-yourself aluminum picture frame, four rather complex extrusions to capture the picture, glass, etc., and be clipped together at the corners.

There's lots of very straight aluminum extrusions out there - the trick is to get past seeing stuff as what the factory thought it was, and instead ask "what can I do with this?"

But again, Brian, I want to emphasize that my choice to go with cheap, fast, and functional is not better than your choice to go with elegant pretty, and historically more accurate. It's a matter of what brings you pleasure.

Hey Brian

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Brian great seeing you at the woodshow ;ast weekend.

I too like the Rob Cosman winding sticks and built a similar set a couple of years ago.

I used straight grain maple and dropped in some cocobolo inlays on one set. They work real well and it does help to taper them just as Rob says on his website.

He's a Great Canadian plane "Pusher" and I too am his tool "junkie"

Take Care and Stop by sometime for Coffee,

Dan Clermont

Re: More bottom feeding thoughts

Patrick Gibbons, Houston, TX

>Older sources I have read suggest using mahogany with an inlay for contrast. The mahogany is used because of stability. Living here in rainy, wet Houston I think the Dunbar solution of aluminum angle is brilliant. Thin strips of wood curl up into a moustache here in no time.

Not just for benches

Ellis Walentine

>Winding sticks are definitely handy for spotting twist in a bench top, but that is only one application. You can use them on any board that you intend to flatten, to see where the high spots are and how twisted they really are.

Whether you are using an electron-gobbling jointer or a #7, it's good to know the location and amount of material you need to remove. Often, you will find that it is more than you thought, and that flattening the entire board will mean that you can't get the thickness you need out of the board.

Winding sticks can be very accurate if you really need that degree of accuracy, as in spotting a 1/16" twist over the length of a benchtop, but often they are only needed to get a rougher idea of the lay of the land. Once you get close to final flatness, proper use of your jointer or jointer plane should take care of any remaining twist.

Ellis Walentine

My Winding Sticks Experience

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Hi David,

Last summer I made a timber-frame-type shed for my wife for her orchids, using mostly 4x4s. They all twisted as they dried in my car port, and for the braces and mortises, etc., to line up, I had to get rid of the twist on some of the surfaces, and make sure that the two adjacent surfaces with the mortises were at 90� to each other.

The boards were 7-10 feet long, and I bought a pair of factory made winding sticks from Highland Hardware (I think). They are some sort of stable resin (phenolic, maybe) with white and black sides. For many adult eyes (mine, anyway), it is hard to focus on something two feet away, and on something ten feet away, at the same time. I found the contrasting colors a BIG help.

I do not know about using them for a little 3-foot board on top of your workbench, I guess that would be easier?

On my list of things to do before the heat death of the universe is to make some nice ones with ebony or cocobolo, etc., like proposed here, and hide the plastic ones!

Here is a curious model: 

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Re: Dunbar's radical solution

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I did something similar except for 3 things:

1) I never heard of Dunbar's solution (hehe)

2) I made mine shorter (18") - Too short!

3) I didn't think of using them in a triangle position, I used them more in a "L" position

I painted one edge white and the other black.

They work on skinny boards.

Re: An even simpler guy from Arkansas

paul womack

>I want to make something a little more inspirational than the couple of painted extruded aluminium strips

Good call!

For those people who have forgotten what "inspirational" means, here's some totally pointless excellence

BugBear