Oilstone question

Re: Oilstone question

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>This could be totally wrong, but I have wondered whether the glazing on some oilstones could be hardened, dried, ancient oil? Maybe some serious solvent would help?

I noticed that Bob Smalser stores his oilstones in kerosene...

Re: Oilstone question

Bob Hackett

>The stones have been degreased with solvent and simple green and hold water just fine now(sort of a simple test for no oil left in or on them).The abrasive grit that they`re made of just seems to have been worn off flat and somewhat shiny in patches and this is what the steel is riding over.The areas with no sheen to them cut OK as I`ve tried them with smaller chisels.The question is,how do I restore the "tooth" to the clean but dull areas.

Mainely,Bob

rub on "dead" diamond stone

bill tindall

>It will improve both of them. A lot of the diamond is still in the "stone" buried in the metal that holds the diamonds on. Rubbing another abrasive on the diamond will wear away the metal binder quicker than the diamond and thereby expose some more diamond. It won't make it new but it will imporve it for a while. As for the oilstone, think of the diamond stone acting as a grinding wheel dresser.

Re: Oilstone question

George Makowski

>This response is perhaps boneheaded. Why not just use oil if they are oil stones? The oilstones that I use from old carborundums to a new Woodcraft India stone do not glaze if used with light oil and wiped clean after each use.

While we see a passion for waterstones among many of the readers of this forum, oilstones do work as intended with oil. I do not know about the very high grit equivalents oil vs. water. However, you might try the usual oilstone regimen of going to your finest grit and then finishing by stropping first on fine grit impregnated canvas followed by plain leather.

Good sharpening

George in AL

Re: Oilstone question *LINK*

WoodburnBob

>Bob, I'm not completely sure I understand what you are describing, but it sounds like an instructive problem. I expect Joel will offer the best advice when he sees the post. In the meantime, I have a couple of thoughts.

Is this correct? You've been using a coarse synthetic oilstone with water not oil to dress fine and medium synthetic oilstones. As a result, you've smoothed the coarse granules and packed all possible crevices between those dull granules with fine paste. The result looks glazed and won't cut steel (or anything else).

You need to be able to fracture the coarse granules loose to restore (dress) the surface. A good analogy is what one must do frequently with 6" or 8" grinder wheels to keep them working properly. Think about how wheels are dressed: big leveraged forces breaking out the glaze and dull granules.

The best luck I've had renewing oilstones is not with high quality diamond stones whether fresh or worn out. The abrasive is just too fine. Alternatively, a problem I've had with 36 grit paper (like floor sander sheets) is that the grit fractures rapidly...since, as with the glazed grinder wheels, you have to use BIG forces to break granules out of your stone.

What has worked well for me in dressing oilstones are these really cheap ($13/3 plates of 2" X 6") and very coarse diamond plates from cheapo retailers like Harbor Freight. I find them much coarser than their stated grit size (more like they are using sandpaper grit as a reference). The bonus is that they last quite awhile even though I abuse the hell out of them.

You'll find these plates in lots of places that sell 4 chisel sets for $1.99 (the set, not per chisel). I'd be very surprised if these diamond plates/"stones" don't rapidly solve your problem.




Harbor Freight "Stones"

Re: Oilstone question

joel

>The reason your stones are glazing is that you are using them with a lubricate without sufficient visocity. Honing oil makes the steel particals float away - otherwise the stone will clog and glaze.

New oilstones are usally oil-filled at the factory. However Norton used to recommend that one soak all new soft arkansas stones and other non-oilfilled stones in oil for a day or so before use - this way when you add oil - it will not soak in dragging the metal with it.

Norton honing oil is a medium viscosity mineral oil. You can easily mix up your own from a 505-0 mixoture of baby oil (a heavy viscocity mineral oil) and kerosene. I used to do the latter, now I do the former is smells better and is non-toxic.

Pure kerosene doesn't have enough viscocity and will drive out the oil fill of the oil stone - eventurally the stones will glaze and clog. All baby oil too thick and too much resistance to sharpening.

ps - I just got off the phone with the head of the factory where they make the Norton India and Crystonlon stones to confirm why the glazing occured. Just to make sure that my theory was OK.

Re: Oilstone question *LINK*

David Miller from Iowa

>I found this link some months ago when we were discussing stones. Like WBBob, he uses diamond stones.


Cool Arkansas Stone Link

Yes, but...

WoodburnBob

>while I knew you'd have a lucid formulation of how Bob's stone(s) came to be the way they are, I also hoped you'd discuss your thoughts on remedies for his still hopelessly clogged stones.

Everyone reading this thread will now know how to avoid the problem, ... and that's a good thing (too much Martha Stewart in the news; my mind is beginning to rot).

Joel, do you think re-soaking the stones in oil will do much at this point, or will Bob also still need to resurface/dress the stone surface?

Re: Yes, but...

joel

>I don't know - I would guess resufracing the stones and then letting them dry out would do the trick then soaking in oil

but I don't have any practical experience in that. Also new india stones are really inexpensive, the old ones were a lot softer - is it even worth the effort to work on the stone?

Here`s the rub...

Bob Hackett

>(Hey,that`s almost funny)

After years of working in the oilfield my skin will not tolerate long exposure to oil based solvents.Anything more than 30 minutes with any solvent like kerosene or mineral spirits and my skin turns red and then peels for days later.Before anyone suggests gloves,I`ve tried it and always end up wearing through them long before I`m done sharpening.

The coarse grit sides of these stones are NOT clogged with anything,they are CLEAN.They are just as Bob said,dull.

I`ll try to resurface them using the cheap diamond stones(I`ve seen them on the `bay).The analogy to the dull grinding wheel is a very accurate assessment of the situation.If the china-diamonds don`t work then I guess I`ll just go back to sheet abrasives as a way to do the rough work.Sure would like to get these Nortons to cut again if I could though.

Does Shapton make a coarse stone,something to take pits out of old chisel backs and plane irons?I believe I`ll try ceramic before I buy another high priced coarse diamond stone that lasts less than one year.

Thanks for all the input so far.

Mainely,Bob

You lost me Joel

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Norton honing oil is a medium viscosity mineral oil. You can easily mix up your own from a 505-0 mixoture of baby oil (a heavy viscocity mineral oil) and kerosene. I used to do the latter, now I do the former is smells better and is non-toxic.

-So you soak/fill your stones with a 50-50 mix of babyoil and kerosene? Is there any stones that you don't oil fill or I am just totally lost and confused?

I usualy just squirt on some baby oil, and I have not soaked them to fill them. Seems to work well, but if better can be achieved I'm game, or if I'm unintentionally harming my stones I'd like to know. So far no problems with glazing, but than again they really haven't seen a whole heck of a lot of heavy use either. :~(

I've got bunches of flea market found stones that need to be cleaned of years grime, should I soak them in water and Dawn dishsoap for a few days to loosen deep imbedded dirt?

Todd O.

Todd O.

Re: You lost me Joel

joel

>There is no need to soak a modern India stone - they come oil filled. SOft arkansas should be soaked. Hard arkansas - nothing soaks in anyway.

As I said in the last post regular baby oil works fine - won't harm the stone - but it will be a little viscous and you are working too hard. A 50/50 mixture with kerosene is better. Pure kerosene doesn't have the viscosity to float the metal away so the stone will clog, and the kerosense will soak into the stone displacing the more viscous oil fill.

Honing oil by any reputable maker works fine.

Re: Here`s the rub...

joel

>try norton honing oil - no solvent to bother the skin.

Shapton makes coarse stones - I find flattneing them too much work and the coarse stones are too soft for my taste.

For new tools I use a diamond stone.

Couarse Lapping film (40 or 80 micron) works great too.

Re: Oilstone question

Gerry Doll

>Bob,

How flat are those stones? sounds like a good deal.