ECE jointer plane

Re: ECE jointer plane

Hank Knight in SC

>Andrew, I inherited an ECE jointer from my dad who used little if at all. When I got it the sole was bowed pretty badly, so I ran it across my jointer and flattened it. Then I realized that my dad had stored it with the blade tensioner tightened. I loosened the tensioner and after a few weeks the sole bowed back the other way. I tightened the tensioner back up months ago and the sole has moved some but it has not returned all the way to flat. The blade is pretty good and keeps an edge O.K. But the bottom line for me is that it's not worth messing with. It weighs a ton and is awkward to use. My recommendations is to buy a good iron jointer on eBay.

My $.02 FWIW

Re: ECE jointer plane

Steve Kubien

>Hi Andrew,

I've got no experience with the ECE jointer but it a woodie is what you are after, have you considered one from Steve Knight? I love mine and I haven't touched my #7 since it arrived.

Just an idea,

Steve Kubien

Ajax, Ontario

Re: ECE jointer plane

Andrew F in Australia

>Andrew,

They're good quality tools, still used by continental tradesmen (from recollection, you're on the W coast of Scotland?)

Once you get the feel of using the plane, it's fairly easy, as are all wooden planes. Hand hold is different, which forces slightly different technique.

The irons and adjusters are trade quality.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: ECE jointer plane

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Andrew,

Woodie jointers cause a pretty fair percentage of all the fun in woodworking IMO. They're in the same ballpark as really sharp saws and paring chisels. I have Clark & Williams jointers, not ECE. But my ECE smoother is a high quality plane. The blade is chrome vanadium, which is OK but nothing to write home about. It'll get sharp. The subblade, or chipbreaker, at least on the smoother I have, is very well machined and sturdy. The depth adjuster is a curious thing, which you have to take apart and examine to understand, because there is a mechanical linkage between it and the blade tightening mechanism. The lateral adjust is less effective than just using your hands IMO. The 'reform' feature, or mouth adjust, works well if the plane you buy has this feature--I don't know whether the jointers have them.

I was hoping that Christof Hartge might stop by and talk about ECE jointers because he owns and regularly uses a couple of them. You might find his email from a previous posting and write him about them. One thing you might think to ask an owner is whether it is better to buy the plane with the depth adjuster, or the one with the wedge only. I've got a sneaking hunch that the wedged plane might be the way to go, but you need to ask an owner. After some practice, it's not difficult to hammer-adjust a plane blade.

Maintenance is a good question. I have a number of wooden planes--Japanese, C&W, ECE smoother, Knight, and an old Mathieson. I don't think the Knight ebony has ever moved. But the others move a little. Woodie plane maintenance is not onerous, but has to be attended to. What this means is that you will need something to check flatness with. A cast iron or granite reference plate, preferably 24", or at least a 2-foot straight edge (with a spec on it), is a good investment. Some of the best money you will ever spend in your shop would be on these items, whether you ever own a woodie plane or not. Cause you can check the soles of your metal plane(s), as well as the straightness of rails and stiles, and combination square blades, etc. You could also use a thick piece of glass on a jointer table or table saw, and lap directly on that. But you will need something at least two feet long that will give an accurate test for flatness.

I am wondering what is the availability of vintage Mathiesons in your area. These are very fine planes indeed, if you can find one in good condition, meaning not abused. I bought one off Ebay that is beat to crap, and it works real well anyway. The blade steel is excellent. So a good example would be really nice, I'm certain. This will be an excellent adventure!

Wiley

Re: ECE jointer plane

Andrew Pallas

>Thanks for the info guys. Did a search for posts by Christof but no luck, anyone know any other owners out there? Well remembered andrew, W coast of Scotland it is.

Andrew

Re: ECE jointer plane

paul womack

>...reference plate, preferably 24"...

I'll just point out that the diagonal on a 12" by 18" plate is 21.6" which is probably enough.

The smaller plate is a good deal lighter, and cheaper to buy and ship.

BugBear (who likes the certainty his 8"x12" reference gives him)

Re: Here I am

Christof Hartge

>Hello Andrew,

here are my experiences. I do have my ECE jointer in constant use since 4 years now. I do like the plane, won't ever sell it and wholeheartedly recommend it. I know that there are bunch of good other planes out there. I just speak for this one.

I wrote a little article "The taming of a shrewed board" for the German version of this forum. You'll find helpfull pictures of the plane in action here: http://www.woodworking.de/schaerfprojekt/brett1-4.html.

First to the purpose: This plane excels at jointing long edges, enabling you to plane invisible glue ups. The plane produces fine paperlike shavings.

The plane can also be used to flatten the surface. I prefer to use a Try plane to that. This is because that blade of try plane is rounded and allow quicker work.

Second you can use the ECE jointer to smooth big surfaces. I prefer to use a wooden short- jointer, which is comaparable to a 7. You don't need such a longitude for smoothing and at least the Ulmia Short jointer is bedded at 50� which helps in the smoothing process. This one is pictured here: http://www.woodworking./schaerfprojekt/brett1-2.html

As to the question of a flat sole: Every half year I control the surface and remove some slight, slight material with a card scraper, if neccesary. This lasts 5 Minutes and that's all. Just be patient if the plane arrives in a new surrounding give him some time and control with tensioned iron.

This shoud be true for different climates. Wiley's ECE smoother lives in sunny California my planes dwells in the much rougher northern Hassiae. Both don't have humidty problems.

Some remarks to the adjuster: It is different from the bailey system but works very fine. Once set up you don't have to lossen a screw first or have any play in the screw, thje adjuster works on the point. However the adjusters shares a problems with many other adjusting systems: The lateral orientation of the iron changes with the depth controll. I don't like that, although it is easily corrected with moving the lateral arm. Once you get used to the play of hammer and wedge you, you#ll realize what precise and easy to use system the wedge attchment is. Bottom line: the Primus adjuster is a nice thing but not neccesary.

My jointer has a Lignum-vitae sole. Looks good smells good, harder and slickier than any other wood. On the other hand my Ulmia short jointer has a hornbeam sole and I'm as content with the performance of the sole. Hornbeam has the advantage that it is more easily repaired or jointed than Lignum vitae if anything should happen.

To sum it up: First: The plane is good an will serve to your satisfaction. Second: Give it a second thought if you want to start with a short jointer from ECE or Ulmia or Mathhieson etc. like this one:http://www.fine-tools.com/rauh.htm. These planes are easier to start with. You can consider purchase long jointer and a Fore plane later.

Hope this helped,

Grettings, Christof.

Yep

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>You're right. A 12" x 18" is one-half the weight and footprint of an 18" x 24", and it will handle 22-24" planes. I'm spoiled because Japan Woodworker sells a 9" x 24", which BTW works just fine for maintaining a 30" jointer.

Good catch! Wiley

Re: ECE jointer plane

Andrew Pallas

>Thanks again all, this is all very encouraging. Christof, do you think the shorter jointer would do an acceptable job at edge jointing if I were to buy it as my first jointer?

I'm heading off on holiday to the Isle of Skye now for a week, so it will take me a while to respond to any responses!

Andrew - who is turning into enough of a galoot to be taking The Workbench Book on holiday!

Re: ECE jointer plane

Christof Hartge

>Hello Andrew,

yes I do think th short jointer will do an acceptable Job. All the more it will be more easy to handle a short jointer for a beginner.

Now, although being fond of ECE and always encouraging them in this global world beacuse they are the only German quality planemaker that's left, I still think those old Scottish wooden planes are very good and have a good handling and balance. So it might be worth to look at Toolbazaar, Inchmartine, if they doesn't have something in that direction at a very good price.

Greetings, Christof.

Re: toolbazaar

paul womack

>In the UK a good condition 22-24" wooden jointer should be around 15-20 GBP. They're just not sought after; supply and demand brings the price down.

The blade will probably take "some labour" to get into working fettle.

BugBear

Re: Yep

paul womack

>Japan Woodworker sells a 9" x 24",

Sounds like they get the manufacturer to slice a 18" x 24" down the middle :-)

BugBear

Re: prices...

paul womack

>Grizzly will do ya' a same spec 18x24 for half the price of the Japan Woodworker 9x24.

Grizzl granite

Bigger discounts in the supply chain for the big supplier, I guess.

BugBear

Re: Yep

Christof Hartge

>This might be an draw-back for Andrew.

I made the same experience with the iron: it needed some work. And the sole had to be smoothend. The last thing a villain did with it, was to plain a nail.

These things were not difficult to overcome, in fact it was easy.

Christof.

Re: prices...

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>What would something like that run you in Jolly Olde?

Re: prices...

paul womack

>What would something like [18x24]that run you in Jolly Olde?

The main problem is not actually price; they're just not available.

The only source I know of is Axminster. The price isn't too bad.

18x24 granite surface plate

Your 100 GBP (including sales tax) gets you 18"x24" x 4" and it's grade 'A' not grade 'B', which is not so bad.

But it's not my choice...

APTC list 2 plates, compared with Grizzy's dozen. I haven't even looked at Enco and MSC.

BugBear (with a hand carried from USA Enco sourced 8x12x2 plate)

Paying more for convenience

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Paul,

Analysis correct. I knew at the time I was paying a premium for the odd size. However, the smaller footprint was worth more to me than the extra money, and I didn't have a way to cut the Grizzly in 2.

All of which leads me to wonder whether a great outfit like LV might be able to make a buck delivering cut-to-size surface plates, and undercutting JWW. By the way, and this is a keen observation on JWW's part, they also sell 4x24 3M precision abrasive sheets, so you can exactly fit two on the surface plate. And they sell these for a bigger markup than the plate! Bugs, I realize you're a spot and scrape guy, but these 3M sheets are not like sandpaper. Dimensionally stable, no furling ahead of the work, you shake out the swarf and keep using em.

Please, Rob Lee, take a look at this situation for business opportunity. JWW catalog items #99.403.24 (surface plate), and #87.791.98 (microfinishing film, 50 micron example). Thanks!

Wiley

Re: Paying more for convenience

paul womack

>All of which leads me to wonder whether a great outfit like LV might be able to make a buck delivering cut-to-size surface plates, and undercutting JWW.

I don't think so. At the risk of second-guessing a company with much more marketing experience than me, it appears that the potential customer base is the intersection of obsessive plane-sole flatteners, and owners with small workshops.

Not a big market.

BugBear