Quick & Short LV LA Jack preview...

Re: Quick & Short LV LA Jack preview...

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I just finished sharpening up the high angle blade last night it's a great option I think more usefull than the LA on hardwoods.

That's right!

HC Sakman

>I agree fully indeed Jim.

Chico...

Re: Quick & Short LV LA Jack preview...

Jim Shaver Oakville, Ont

>Hi Chico,

I like the swoosh, maybe I need to sell my LN 62...man, wwhy does LV do that to me, then you come along and swoosh it Chico!!

Take care,

Jim

I feel the same about...

HC Sakman

>...my LN 073. This is not fair! ;-(

Chico...

Re: I feel the same about...

Jim Shaver Oakville, Ont

>I have that one too!!! jeeze Louise....I'm not buying anymore tool still I see what is coming from LV man, It's like I dump out $$$ then see it a year or so later from LV at $$...and basically the same functionality..

Take care,

Jim

This is a new one!

HC Sakman

>...and I love it! ( I am referring to: "jeeze Louise" !)

You're one & only Jim! God bless you! ;-)

Chico...

Re: I feel the same about...

deanp

>Jim,

You don't really beleive LV is the same quality as LN do you? Now I'm not saying LV is no good but they are not the same as LN. LN make better tools with higher quality controls hence the difference (higher) in price.

Re: I feel the same about...

Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO

>I'm not Jim but I'll add my two cents on this one.

There are many aspects to the term "quality". We can talk about the quality of the raw materials, the design, the execution, and the final fit and finish. I don't think anybody produces tools in volume today with the fit and finish that LN offers. However, LV has recently shown that they will take design a step further on many tools to provide a functionality at a new level of quality that did not exist in the vintage tool.

Which quality is more important to you?

Ted

Re: I feel the same about...

Rob Lee

>Well Dean,

Tom makes an excellent product - and all of the price difference is right in front of your eyes...

Some of the differences are in the casting method (investment cast for LN, and sand cast for LV)and in some of the finish processes.

As far as fit and tolerances go - I'd have to challenge that. I can certainly run through SPC processes, machine types, maintenance procedures, product inspections, and quote tolerances on every part, surface, and line.

What you also appear to have missed is that there isn't a single product that overlaps within the two product lines (other than possibly the 102 vs apron plane) - not as a conscious choice on our part, but as a byproduct of redesign.

Both companies have made choices about what their value propositions are, and while they're different in many ways, quality as it relates to performance isn't one of them.

Cheers -

Rob Lee

(still waiting for his LN chisels...)

Hmmmm.

HC Sakman

>I wouldn't simply put the difference in between LN and LV with a broad word like "better". Such as better in "one better than the other" type of statement.

Functionally, I think some models of each manufacturer is ever so slightly better than the other, with the exception of 073. (LV's version is clearly better since it has the virtues of the 21st century ergonomic design vs. remake of a century older design.) Other than that, just slight differences in performance, though they are close enough that I can easily say that they are "head-to-head".

Visually.... that's a different matter. Some LN planes, I find, visually more appealing. Since I really use these tools, that comes 3rd. for me; After function/performance (combined,they count as one.) and price.

Chico...

Re: I feel the same about...

deanp

>Rob,

I am not trying to diss your tools in anyway. I think you make exellent tools for their price range. But are you trying to tell me that you've created a 4.5 smoother that is as good in performance and everything else as LN's 4.5 smoother at almost 1/2 the cost? I'm sorry...that doesn't sit well. It's like a Ford Taurus dealer telling me his car is as good as a Cadillac.

I don't want to get into a debate with you...I agree with you that the 2 companies should not be compared because they have different lines and different price points. That's why we don't compare LN tools to Hotley...or LV to Stanley.

Re: I feel the same about...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I have the LV 4.5 and I can tell you that it's not the same tool as the LN.Not better,not worse just a totally different tool. Apples and oranges.The LV is a new design unique to LV planes. You can't compare the prices as if they were similar tools.---Jack

Re: I feel the same about...

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Dean comments to Rob,

"But are you trying to tell me that you've created a 4.5 smoother that is as good in performance and everything else as LN's 4.5 smoother at almost 1/2 the cost?"

Well, I'm not Rob, and you need to specifiy what "everything else" is for me to address that part reasonably, but I can comment about how they stack up in performance, and indeed have in several reviews and one published study and one still to be published study (see the Traditional Tools web site).

My findings, gained over the course of direct comparisons with equivalent effective cutting angles, open comparisons as part of a larger group of planes, and multi-rater, single blind comparisons of a very large group of planes, has consistently found the LV and LN #4.5, when used at the same effective cutting angle on a wide variety of wood species, to perform virtually identically, with neither plane to consistently show an advantage. The variance from your ability to read the wood and adjust your plane and technique accordingly will almost certainly exceed any inherent performance difference between the two planes.

Now there may be other aesthetic and ergonomic reasons to prefer one plane over the other, but I've compared these two planes a lot over the last few years (current configuration for the LN is usually the 50 degree frog, A2 blade and new chip breaker), and consistently there has been no repeatable difference in the quality of surface finish achieved by these planes when configured to the same 45 or 50 degree effective cutting angle.

Lyn who is now very tired of typing one handed

Re: I feel the same about...

Rob Lee

>Dean -

But are you trying to tell me that you've created a 4.5 smoother that is as good in performance and everything else as LN's 4.5 smoother at almost 1/2 the cost?

Yes - that's exactly what I'm telling you. Based on experience, a significant body of research, and extensive testing.

Cheers -

Rob