LV Large Shoulder Plane

Hardly unbiased

Derek in Naples FL

>Christopher,

I have been watching this forum for a while now and judging by your many previous posts extolling the virtues of Lee Valley products, I hardly think your opinions are unbiased. There are many wonderful products out there by many quality manufacturers and suppliers.

Just my 2�.

Derek

Derek

Re: Hardly unbiased

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Derek...unfortunately every person has a bias of some sort. Christophers post seemed well founded in fact. Also he admitted that he was posting with first hand (except for the referral to the Lie-Nielsen long term use fatigue) knowledge and experience. One could do worse than tout Lee Valley/Veritas products. They are almost universally accepted as innovative and quality tools.

I have the Lie-Nielsen large shoulder plane and spent some time easing the edges of the plane body to increase comfort. I find the grip is rather non intuitive. Still I love the quality of the tool and its performance is excellent.

What is your bias?:-)JR

With all due respect....

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>...quite frankly, I think your post is off base.

I presume that you are suggesting that I am affiliated with Lee Valley/Veritas in some way. Or perhaps you are suggesting I'm so stupid as to be incapable of forming coherent thoughts with respect to tool quality.

Well, to let you know, I have never been affiliated with Lee Valley or any other tool maker for that matter. I'm a manager and a software engineer by trade, and for me, woodworking is an important personal hobby. However, I don't have the time or inclination to associate with any tool maker in any capacity other than as a customer.

If you think I am somehow biased against, for example, Lie-Nielsen tools, just to let you know, I happen to own about 11 LN planes. I can guess that, in your view, I must now be biased towards LN.

The problem is, your post is just a flawed assumption that, if a person has a positive view of certain tools from a company, they must be biased, their statements ignored, and they are deserving of thinly veiled insult.

In addition, you zero in my comments about Lee Valley all the while ignoring my postive posts about:

Clifton planes:

Re: Clifton planes

(OOO!!! BIAS!)

ECE Mortise Chisels:

Re: Mortising Chisels

(SEE!! He's BIASED I TELL YOU!)

Clifton, Lie Nielsen, Record, Veritas, and a Dozuki Z saw from Woodcraft:

Tool Observations and thoughts(long)

(SEE BIASED I TELL YOU!!!)

In a serious vein, I actually complained about a problem with the Veritas dovetail markers in that last post. But that can't be true since I'm biased!!! Yes I'm so biased that I even pointed out that the Veritas Low-angle spokeshave does not work well on inside curves in another post earlier today.

Harris tools:

Speaking of Fielding Planes(Mini-Gloat)

Inchmartine Tool Bazaar:

Yay!

Lie Nielsen planes:

Re: Who else has a multi-bladed LN62?

Ahsley Iles Carving Gouge:

I have an Ashley Iles...

Darn! SEE all that BIAS!!!

(hehehehe)

Funny thing is, I will completely agree with you that there are many fine tools made by many fine companies, and I have probably mentioned a number of them in my posts here on Woodcentral. About the only thing someone could accuse me of is being a tool junkie and too positive about tools.

In any case, you are certainly welcome to think what you like of me, but if you are going to make a statement about me like the one in your post, do me a favor and do some research first.

:)

It seems you DO have a bias

Bruce, a MN galoot

>toward high quality hand tools. I'm only envious of your collection (personally, I like E.A. Berg chisels).

Bruce, who is always amazed about gratuitous criticism.

Re: It seems you DO have a bias

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>hehe... you pegged me good there Bruce. I try to be a customer and not a consumer. I have been quite fortunate to have a good paying job and I spend a decent amount of discretionary income towards tools. Everytime I feel guilty about it, I remember what my uncle once told me: "There are much worse things you could be doing with your money, like gambling it away, or blowing it on cigarettes, etc. Also, there are much worse things you could be doing with your time than woodworking..."

;)

So where can I find information on E.A. Berg chisels?

I love to read about all sorts of tools....

I once planned on printing out a list of my web page links related to woodworking tools and information for my uncle. Turns out it would have taken a large number of pages to print them.

I'll readily admit that I have bought my fair share of poor tools. However, I have learned how to look for quality in tools by paying attention to woodworkers like the ones here on Woodcentral. The old lesson of "buy the best tools you can afford" rings true, at least for me.

:)

Re: It seems you DO have a bias

Bruce, a MN galoot

>About the only source of info I can find comes from the oldtools list. They are Swedish, were once made in and/or around Eskilstuna and sold under the Shark Brand. AFAIK they're not made anymore, like so many good tools. They're hard, tough, hold an edge a long time, and I don't have enough. OTOH, I don't know what would be enough.

Bruce

Re: Hardly unbiased

Mike Lietzow

>While I think it is important to expose shills, I don't understand how you came to this particular conclusion. If Christopher is biased in favor of LV/Veritas tools, what is the basis of his bias?

Cheers,

Mike

Expectations of bias, vs shills

Ellis Walentine

>Couple things...

First, I found Derek's post offensive and baseless, whether he meant it that way or not. Such provocations are out of line here.

Second, regarding biases, I would expect all of us to have biases -- toward the tools and brands that we personally like and against those that we don't. What is a forum for besides exchanging opinions with each other?

The question of propriety here is whether someone is acting as a shill for a particular manufacturer or vendor, that is, overtly or covertly testifying about that brand for personal gain or unfair promotion. That is not acceptable here. Expressing one's opinion, no matter how glowing it may be about a particular brand, is welcome and encouraged.

My two cents on this discussion.

Ellis Walentine, Host

Chris, you miserable, biased fraud!

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>How dare you not admit that you are in favor of tools which you have used, and that work well!

;-)

Thanks for posting the comparison. I already own the LN, so I will not be buying the LV, but it sounds like a winner.

Re: It seems you DO have a bias

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Christopher...Snip The old lesson of "buy the best tools you can afford" rings true, at least for me.

Snip.

Well I agree up to a point. I am a professional auto tech in my "paying" job and I prefer to buy the best tools I can find. Not the best I can afford. This will, at least in my profession, make me more money and keep me from getting hurt when an affordable tool breaks. JR

Berg Chisel info *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>Chris,

I use a set of Bergs daily - they cost me about USD5-10.oo each in flea markets.

Note the handle design - it's distinctive and identifies the chisel if the sticker's gone.


Forum on Knots with discussion on Berg Chisels

Hijack-Sandvik saw

Tex Gibbons

>I've not had the opportunity to use Berg chisels but I did buy a Sandvik 10ppi crosscut saw, 1960's vintage, off the bay last year for $5 or $10 and had Tom Law sharpen it up for me. The saw is not elegant but the steel seems to be thinner than my Disstons and the saw is amazingly light and sharp. It just cuts nicely and is a pleasure to use. Seems the Swedes know a thing or two about tool steel for hand tools.

Re: Berg Chisel info

Bruce, a MN galoot

>Andrew, I realllllly appreciate the info on Berg chisels. Thanks for the link.

Bruce, who truly claims to be a user, not a collector.