OT - screen door

How about ...

Kevin F, New Zealand

>... making the bottom rabbet into a dado, and running the removable panels right to the bottom of the frame. Also put a weathergroove in the bottom of the panels. And slope the bottom of the panels to the outside. The rain will run right to the bottom of the panels, and drip from there, without getting into a rabbet. Any rain that gets around the side of the panels also has an unobstructed route to the bottom where it can drip off. It's always good to give the rain an easy way out, rather than relying solely on sealing to keep it from getting in.

This is similar to the construction of a framed, braced and ledged door, where the bottom member of the frame is not full thickness, but the vertical boards run down the outside of it, to discharge the rain outside.

You might (rightly) conclude that I live in a climate where rain is an issue!

Cheers

Kevin

I like Kevins idea...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>But how about like a shash window is made kinda sorts antway. By adding the drip grooves or edges (like Kevin says if I'm getting a clear image in my head). It should work well I think. For more info see Jim Kingshott's video "mortice and tennons made simple". He steps by steps you through one...well actually two, you'll see if you watch it.

"Californians not believing it storms in the winter"

Bill...we all don't live down south now do we ;)

Scott looking foreward to a few 7" of rain per day per weekend. Why it never rains that much when I'm at work during the week I'll never know.

Re: I like Kevins idea...

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>It rains on weekends because pollutants have been collecting all week long from our overly driven roads. The air gods don't like pollutants, so they start a good rain to purify themselves.

Dean

More details (long) - please forgive the OT post

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Thanks for the ideas. Good to hear from a fellow who "lives with water" in the winters. There are times when I miss the part of the country where the water holds still in the winter - right up to when I remember shoveling it out of the way so I can drive the car.

I am thinking that sloping the bottom rabbet to the outside is imperative (a use for my No. 75 plane!), and am trying to decide whether lining it with flashing would be a good or a bad idea - since all caulking eventually fails, the flashing could trap water under it right at the corners, the very place where I DON'T want water to stay. So I'm leaning toward just sloping it and painting with great enthusiasm, renewing the paint job every time I install the storm window.

It's an existing screen door, on which the screen was installed in a rabbeted opening, held in by molding. The rabbet depth happens to be exactly correct for the aluminum-framed screen assembly and separate aluminum-framed tempered glass assembly that a local glass shop can make up for me. I will hold these in with some sort of clips (though "clips" may include some 1/8" flat stock running up each side, held on with screws)

So my goal is the best way to avoid rot on the bottom rabbet, and especially at the joints on that bottom rabbet, where any water that runs down the sides will collect.

BTW, I've posted this on the "Breaktime" forum of Fine Homebuilding, and been met with resounding silence, so the suggestions here have been quite helpful in getting me thinking.

Two words

Bob Hackett

>Fiberglass,errr West System,oh heck I`m sure you`re getting the picture.

Think BOAT,that always helps me overcome water problems.

Mainely,Bob

Avoiding rot in rabbets (long)

Kevin F, New Zealand

>Bill

The best way to avoid rot in rabbets is to not have rabbets. In this application I think that is possible. Maybe my earlier description was not clear.

Also maybe I don't understand what a screen door is like in your part of the world. This is what I am imagining: an ordinary door, opening inwards. Immediately outside of that, another door, opening outwards, and made of a rail-and-stile frame with panels of insect mesh screen. So in the summer you can leave the ordinary door open and the screen door closed, and get ventilation without bugs.

If I am astray in what I am imagining, my ideas may not work. Otherwise, read on!

It may be easier to follow by imagining making a new screen door. The top rail and the stiles would be made of, eg, 2 by 6 stock. The bottom rail would be made of, eg, 1.5 by 6 stock (or 1.5 by 8, if you prefer, for esthetic reasons). It would be set flush with the stiles on the inside face. You could have a middle rail if you wanted, made of, eg, 1.5 by 6, also flush on the inside face.

On the outside, you have a rabbet 1/2 inch deep in the top rail and the stiles. The removable panels (assumed 1/2 inch thick) are nearly the full height of the door, locate in the rabbets, and pass on the outside of the middle and bottom rails and reach right to and a little beyond the bottom of the bottom rail.

Rain falling on the outside of the panels runs down to the bottom of the panels and drips off onto the sill (which slopes outwards). Rain which finds its way around the edges of the panels (and some will) also has a clear path down until it drips onto the sill.

This avoids the bottom rabbet altogether. The bottom rabbet is vulnerable, not only because it is a collection place for water, but also because it is a cross-grain joint, and seasonal movement will inevitably weaken the paint seal.

If this is still not clear I'll post a sketch.

Cheers

Kevin

Re: Avoiding rot in rabbets (long)

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Very clear, and if I were building a new door, I'd be adopting that sort of approach.

Some screen doors in this particular colony are frame and panel doors, with solid panels on the bottom. This existing door is. Solid panels have the advantage that it's harder for an animal (say, a cat) to scratch holes in them than is true with screen.

I think my best bet is to pitch the bottom rabbet out to the outside, so that water doesn't pool, paint it vigorously, and let it go at that. I may be adding the extra step of pouring penetrating epoxy on it until it's saturated, in hopes this will increase its resistance to water penetration. This particular door had a life of unknown length with a design in which water was guaranteed to be trapped by the bottom screen molding, and has minimal rot, so I think I may be imagining monsters that don't exist.