Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Plane Sole - Am I done?
Marcus D
>I'm trying to flatten an old Stanley #4 plane sole using loose grit (90) and water on a flat glass plate. The heel and toe were the low points, so I had to flatten the middle part to get everything there. After what feels like hours of work (and a mild rotator cuff injury:)) I still have about .002" showing at the heel and toe (checked with feeler gauges). Is this close enough? If not, I will be donating this plane to the next garage sale. TIA.
Re: Plane Sole - Am I done?
Todd Hughes
>I am sure you tried the plane out befor doing all this work to see how it performed, do you notice much improvement in the wood planed with it now since working on it? If so maybe you are done....if not maybe you were done befor you started, eh?.....Todd
Re: Plane Sole - Am I done?
Bob Hackett
>Maybe it`s this new coffee(or "coofee")that the wife bought but I`m suddenly beginning to see where Todd`s coming from on this.
Many new `neanders are getting wrapped around the axel on having dead flat soles on thier planes,the entire backs of thier A2 chisels flat,etc,instead of jumping right in with a tool that is "good enough" for the present skill level.
While I think it`s important to have a reasonably good tool in decent repair I`m starting to drift over to what Todd and Adam are saying in that the use of whatever tool you have in whatever condition you can manage is what`s really important.
As your skill set progresses the tools you use will improve in quality and tuning level to match.It isn`t necessary and doesn`t make a whole lot of sense to start with a Holtey plane.
The point for new WWers really should be to knock the rust off,sharpen, and then USE IT.Only thru use will you gain an understanding of how and why a tool works or fails to work.Once you have that understanding,then you will know how far is enough.Enough is a moving target that is constantly changing according to the work and the person doing it.
In summary,you`re done the day you put the tools down after completing your final project.
Mainely,Bob
PS-Hope I didn`t scare Todd by agreeing with him.
Second that!
Brad in Ottawa
>I was going to respond but I figured no one could sum it up like Todd! Plane something with it... I'm sure it will work just fine.
Brad
Third
Matt Williams
>I have noticed that with my skill level I don't see an appreciable increase in planing results even changing the blades to the ultr fancy from the stock. I have also flattened soles and not seen a huge payback so the #8 I just bought has literally been derusted and sharpened and works great!
Thanks Todd for your insight. Can't imagine how long it would take to flatten an 8!
BINGO
Kevin French, Antrim, NH
>Also not being "Goffy on Coofee", that is what I was saying below with the saw sharpening. A beginner can burn themselves out in the pursuit of prefection in sharpening and tuning and bankrupt the farm in the pursuit of bright shiney tools. When lesser/used one will do nicely to start with.
To start, Spend money on Good Wood, Not over the top tools.
The Experience is worth more.
I now yield the soakbox and go back to my coofee.
Re: Third
George Makowski
>Matt, I have flattened a #8 primarily by draw filing and comparing to a straight edge and checking with winding sticks. It was a wonderful plane before and is even better now.
The comments in this thread are right on. Sharpen and work now, figure out how to improve your tools to do your work as you go along.
Keep planing!
George in AL
A different (and long) view
Christopher Schwarz
>I think you are probably done. A smoothing plane sole within .002" is dang good, especially if you were removing convexity, which is difficult to do.
After working with a lot of planes � good and bad; old and new � I think that sole flatness is an important characteristic. Sometimes too much is made of it (as evidenced by the other messages in this thread). But to downplay the flatness of the sole also has it pitfalls.
Here's my approach: There are four planes in my shop that I call upon to do really accurate work (thin shavings, controlled cuts etc.): the smoother, jointer, shoulder and block. With these four tools, I set them up carefully. If something isn't working right, I start by investigating the fit of the chipbreaker on the bench planes (usually the problem). Then I check the frog to ensure it's well-secured and true. Then I investigate the mouth. If all those are in good order, I turn my attention (reluctantly) to the sole.
If the sole is concave or convex, shooting an edge is frustrating. Smoothing with a messed-up sole (for me, that's one that's out by .006" in a high-tolerance tool) can result in you taking shavings in one place but not another. And if the sole is twisted, good luck. Different hand pressure in different places will give you different results -- usually undesirable ones.
I don't do much to the planes that are used to hog off material: the jack, the scrub etc. They take a coarse shaving so the sole would have to be quite bockety to notice a difference.
Another important point here is that wooden planes are actually easier to tune to higher tolerances in my opinion. I've seen a fair number of wooden try planes and smoothers that were dead-nuts flat right after tuning. Better, in fact, than any metal plane I have. So don't think that wooden-plane people are working with coarser tools because they're not.
The bottom line here is that planing, like all woodworking skills, is one that develops over time. Tune your tools the best you can because that makes the work easier. Put the tool to work. As you get better, your tuning skills and tools will follow suit.
Chris
Well said, Chris
Roger Nixon
>Too often these threads make no distinction between the types and purposes of planes ("Planes is planes and they gotta be flat")in reguard to tuning.
I really don't think Todd's approach and yours are different. Both of you recommmend using the tool to see if it works as desired and then tune it, if necessary, up to the extent needed.
Not Done, my 2c
Jonathan Peck - N.Y.
>To get a smooth surface, it's important for the area in front of the mouth to be in contact with the work surface. For a flat surface, the longer this flat plane, or coplanar surface in contact with the work surface the better, and a light cut preferrable. That said, I totaly agree with Todd and others that tuning a plane should not be laborious.
If you want to hog metal without going hog wild, use low grit sandpaper or drawfile. Some prefer those purple sanding belts in the low grits for this. But, the lower you go, the longer it takes to get back to the higher grits. The question then is how high/low do you want to go? Shorter planes are easier to flatten than longer ones, and for a smoother this shouldn't take long as long as you don't go to low in grit to begin with. But then again, once the sole is initialy flat, you can go to work and come back to flattening/polishing later, or not. As long as you are getting the results you want, ain't that good enough?
The sole of this jointer may look like dogmeat, but it is flat. Even with low grits this sucka was alot of work.
Re: A different (and long) view
paul womack
> Smoothing with a messed-up sole (for me, that's one that's out by .006" in a high-tolerance tool) can result in you taking shavings in one place but not another.
I agree in principle, but your numbers seem high.
For those of you that know me as an obsessed plane flattener, note the date on the post :-)
I currently make my plane soles as flat as I can, just because I can.
BugBear
Re: A different (and long) view
Christopher Schwarz
>Paul,
Your oldtools post shows you have a #4 (b) and a #5 with .006" variation. Have you had trouble with these tools in use? That's the point at which I begin to see trouble when taking thin shavings. I always shoot for much less than .006" however.
Chris
Re: A different (and long) view
paul womack
>Have you had trouble with these [> 6 thou curvature] tools in use?
Yes - especially the #5, which was always hard to control. The flattened versiopn was much easier to make nice flat stock with.
I've subsequently given it away; it was a late model English Stanley, and my current #5 is an early Record (also flattened)
BugBear
I agree
Robin Frierson
>I think having a flat sole makes a big difference. Lot of planes are concave, and the shaving will change thickness as the plane moves over the board. You will end up taking more off the ends than the middle. It planes fine, just not in a consistent fashion.
Re: I agree too
Ted Shuck
>I have found that a concave sole gives very inconsistent planing. When the blade is cutting, it pulls the mouth down. If the blade encounters a local weakness, it will disengage from the wood. A fine cut is not possible in this situation due to difficulty engaging the blade to the wood and the thin shaving is not strong enough to pull the sole down.
After flattening plane soles that are concave, I have found major improvements in the quality of the surface they produce. As many others have said, the area directly in front of the mouth is the most important. If you are trying to take a 0.002" shaving, but the mouth of your plane is hanging 0.004" in the air, it will be difficult to keep much consistency in that shaving.
Ted
Re: I agree also
Kevin French, Antrim, NH
>BUT, Marcus wrote: "The heel and toe were the low points, so I had to flatten the middle part to get everything there. "
No problem here. Use it.