Shooting boards

I feel your pain

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Tim,

It was 8 or 10 years ago that I set out trying to saw straight and I remember the frustration. At the time, I thought there was darn little information about saws, saw sharpening, and using saws. I wasn't entirely clear to me how to hold a hand saw (there are several grips).

Today, there is a lot more information out there thanks to Ralph Brendler, Pete Taran, and others (whose names' escape me). I know saws aren't as sexy as planes, but I think its worth your while to learn. I'd do three things (if I were you or if I had it to do all over again)

1) Learn about tooth geometry and how if effects the cut. This is helpful information even for power saw use/selection. Get a saw vise and just try sharpening a cheap saw. Read Pete Taran's website top to bottom.

2) Practice. 10 minutes a night, 5 minutes cross cutting, 5 minutes ripping. Even if you have to buy lumber to do it, its worthwhile. Sawing is a gateway skill.

3) Ask for help. There's a lot of information here and many very good sawyers.

Tim, it will take you about a week to get okay, and six months before you are comfortable. I think after a year or so, I could make a decision about leaving the line or splitting it. Its not rocket science. My guess is most apprentices were probably fully functioning cabinetmakers in about a year. After that, they were probably expanding their repertoire and paying back their student loan.

Adam

Re: Angles

Robert Weber

>You can look at the table saw analogy this way: take your stock and put it in the miter at 45 degrees. Run it through the blade and you get a cut that is 90 degrees on two corners, and 45 (135) on the other two.

Now, to make the analogy to the ramped shooting board, tilt the table of the table saw, but tilt it along the axis of the saw blade. Since the saw blade is round you can see easily how tilting the table makes no difference at all.

Now, back to the ramped shooting board. Whatever angle the top edge of the stock is being held at, the shooting edge (the one the plane runs against) is always square to the edge of the board (or at least will be after a pass or two from the plane). Again, ramp the shooting board up or down as much as you like, or change the top angle as much as you like, to surfaces are still square and planar.

Hope this makes things clearer - if not let me know and maybe I can do a cad rendering that will help more.

Rob in Peoria

Re: Angles

Sgian Dubh

>Suddenly the light came on!

I guess my mind has been concentrated on more urgent matters today-- 'er indoors needed me to prepare last minute documents before she flies back to the US tomorrow that should enable her to get a UK residents visa.

Thanks to all for your patience. Slainte.

A lot depends on the saw

Alan Bierbaum

>Since I don't have dimensioning saws; I had to use "joint" saws and a bowsaw. I normally use power tools for dimension work and hand tools for clean up and joint work. My bowsaw leaves a fairly rough edge which does need some clean up with a plane. I did find that lack of practice resulted in less than desirable cuts (they got better as the project progressed).

Re: I feel your pain

deanj

>Adam makes a great point, that of practice. We practice hoops, golf, shooting -- but how many of us practice woodworking? Seems like we get most of our practice while en route in a project. While that does work I'm sure we would make less mistakes and work faster if we took a little time to practice all the skills needed for handwork.

I am guilty of getting a lot of practice while building a project, I hope to change that habit and start spending some of my shop time in practice.

-Dean

Yes.

Tim of San Leandro

>alan.

It does.

Hence, for me....I've found japanese saws to be a very good option.

I use inexpensive (relatively) disposable blade saws for dimensioning and finish carpentry work and recently picked up some Mitsukawa saws for joinery work.

Practice....practice.....practice. Yup. I try when I get a chance. If pragmatic (time permits....), I saw by hand rather than electron. sometimes hand sawing is the only real option.....;- )

tim

Practice

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Good for you Dean.

I think people get into woodworking because they want to build stuff. Practice counters that, so they reject it. Seems wasteful.

My challenge website was originally set up so that the pieces of the project would be scrapped, not turned into a completed chest. Some saw that as wasteful.

Some would only participate if they saw a use for the completed chest. I figured it was worth the price of the wood and time for the education, but that's just me.

I respect both sides, so I revised the challenge website to accomodate everyone. But as woodworkers we do seem to have an aversion to practice.

This may be one reason why folks are reluctant to use hand saws. It isn't easy, especially at first, so impatient guys who need to get a project done, may switch on a saw instead. Consequently, there aren't a lot of good sawyers out there. In my mind this has a huge impact on how they approach woodworking, but that's another story.

Adam

Re: Practice *LINK*

Dean Burke - Yakima, WA

>It's a lot easier for those who do not have to buy their wood to justify practice. Those of us who do have to buy wood have a hard time "throwing away" so much money. For example, in Japanese Toolworld, a well known metate (saw sharpener/shaper) is Mark Grable. He has described/invented a set of sawing exercises in which a 6"X6"x40" hunk of wood is destroyed with practice. The exercises are great, there's really a lot of value in trashing that hunk; but it also costs a lot of money.

Dean


Grable's saw exercises

Re: good enough for the old guys

paul womack

>Judging from the number of well worn shooting boards I see at sales and auctions, I think they were used a lot.

BugBear

Re: My latest shooting board

paul womack

>Bugbear also suggested (in discussion on the Old Tools Forum) that a ramped shooting board would make entry easier than a flat one. After using this new one, I think he is right.

It's MOST surprising that such a gentle ramp (I'm guessing below 10 �) can have an effect.

Does it also effect (favourably) end grain blowout on the workpiece?

BugBear

Re: Shooting boards

George Makowski

>Tim, In my humble study and experience, what I have learned is to match the degree of accuracy to the job at hand. This is the great fundamental of all hand technology from wood work to traditional field mapping (one of the subjects I teach).

What does that mean about shooting boards and getting square, straight edges? Well, that sometimes it is worth using them and sometimes not. If you need an especially accurate end on a piece that needs the end grain cleanly planed, a shooting board is great. If you need an end of average accuracy and a sawed surface is fine, saw straight to a well marked line and go on.

As to long edges, practice of about a century ago in hand shops appears to be mixed. On shorter pieces, shooting aids were used, but on longer pieces, carcass and panel pieces, it seems not. These edges were shot with a long plane and gauged with square and straight edge. I have had very good success with shooting boards for cleaning up ends at right angles, 45 degree angles, and mitred ends (with a donkey's ear board).

The shooting boards were appropriate technology production jigs for the folks that used them and used where needed. They do not substitute for good marking out or for keeping good track of which side of the line you are working from. They do provide repeatable "dead" measurement to give repeatable results. That seems to have been their value to past workers and is for me.

Also, don't forget a step that was usual in hand production in wood and other media, "cleaning up". This was the last step done on exposed surfaces. What it means is to go over the whole visible surface with an appropriate plane, scraper, or abrasive and even up the joints to present a smooth surface. While many past pieces of work were accurate througout, most show roughness and uneveness in areas not normally visible. If you are getting results on assembly that can be reasonably made good in the cleaning up process and are mechanically sound on the inside, you are doing good work.

Good shavings!

George in AL

Accuracy

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, Florida

>What steps did you take to make the board rest (?) perpendicular to the cut? Is it adjustable?

Re: Accuracy

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Don

All the timber used was thicknessed by handplane. Mindful that errors are additive and the shooting board is all about accuracy, I checked every step along the way with a digital micrometer, a straight edge and my trusty Starrett square.

The jarrah "runway" was checked for squareness to the ramped "table" (I can't think of other names to call these sections) before the fence was attached. The first measurements were nearly spot-on, and it was a minor task to shave away the runway timber until everything ran at a perfect 90 degrees at all points of the ramped table.

At this point the table was "run in", that is, the plane was run against the side of the ramped table until the blade had removed a few shavings. This permits the plane to ride on a ledge that supports the plane below the blade.

At this point the 90 degree fence was attached with a few drops of glue and clamped in place. After it was dry and checked to be square I drilled and pinned it with dowels.

The mitre fence was built separately, each piece cut on a (hand) mitre saw and trimmed on my (old) mitre shooting board. Care was taken to get this as accurate as possible. This worked out well since it did not require any adjustment when attached to the main fence.

So the fences are not adjustable. They are either 90 or 45 degrees. I have added a pic below of the method of connection. It is very solid. For additional stability, a final step was to glue 220 grit drywall mesh to the fence faces.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Accuracy

paul womack

>It's rather easy to tune a shooting board, especially with a shoulder plane. Instead of measuring the component parts (Derek mentions cumulative erros in any case), just check the resulting cut, and tweak, 1 shaving at a time.

BugBear