Proper use of Frame Saw?

Re: Proper use of Frame Saw?

Alan Bierbaum

>I am no expert; however, it sounds like you do not have enough tension.

Re: Proper use of Frame Saw?

Patrick from Europe

>I use a 10 tpi blade filed rip (by me). I observed that manual filing eliminates the chatter I got with new saws. I was able to rip a lot in pine and jointed (not much). Also, I reset the blade to a minimum and used beeswax to keep it cool. The blade is a 1" vanilla czech product (weak steel IMHO). But good results until I will afford a real one from ECE.

Re: Proper use of Frame Saw?

Christof Hartge

>Hello Jim,

did you use a frame saw or a bow saw? Couldn't make it out of your question. Bow saw have the stretcher in the middle, are tensioned on side and the blade on the other side. Frame saws have the blade in the middle and the stretchers outside.

However I do think the small band saw blades are too small for resaw work. I suspect the blade is not stable enough even for the weight of the saw. That's no problem when you do curved cuts because the blade will be twisted, but will make a difference , when you want straight long cuts. Traditional bows are seperated in the group with small blades for curved cuts and wide blades (Around 2") for tenons and general reawing.

As to the technique: I'd try not to make strict horizontal cuts. Start at a corner and draw the cut slowly towards you, when the cut is over the near corner flip the piece, so that the deep cutted corner is towards you and again start the cut at the far end and use the existing cut as a jig for your blade. In this way work yourself down until you are half through, then fip turn the piece and work down to the other two corners. Shold have some photos now that make it more clear, but perhaps you could vizualise it.

Greetings, Christf.

Re: Proper use of Frame Saw?  *LINK*

paul womack

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Josh Clark

Re: Proper use of Frame Saw?

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>I recently built one, too. Instead of a bandsaw blade, I used a manufactured 5 ppi rip framesaw blade by Wilhelm Putsch (Woodcraft, about $6). This blade is about an inch and a half wide. It has enough set for cutting green pine, but that can easily be corrected if you are going to use it for hardwoods. Alternately, you could find an old rip tooth handsaw at a garage sale and cut it down to size.

More info on the construction of my framesaw will follow in a separate post, when I've finished the writeup, and uploading the photos.

Sawing 101

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I recommend all woodworkers use hand saws, if only to better understand their power saws. Here are my lessons learned. Your experience may differ:

Saws cut best with no more than 10 or so teeth in the kerf. Fewer can be better. There are various reasons including tooth clogging. You always need more than a couple so your saw has a sole to rest on and isn�t just a hatchet (read-on, it will become clearer).

The angle the saw makes with the wood, changes the number of teeth in the kerf. So a 5tpi saw would have 5 teeth engaged in a 1� thick board with the saw held perpendicular to the stock.

Sawing perpendicular to the stock is good. You can make good progress. If the saw is not sharp, you may be breaking the wood more than cutting it, though. Also, you are essentially working end grain, which may reduce your progress in hardwoods. I saw perpendicular for many operations including scrolling and some rip operations at the bench (overhand grip open/panel/english saw �whatever you call the normal western saw). Ripping at the bench is good for tight quarters or stock too thin for a saw horse.

In hard woods, it can be good to saw at some angle, say 45 degrees. In this case, the saw teeth are basically like tiny plane irons, planing with the grain. This I do on horses. If we used the same 5tpi saw on our 1� thick stock, we would have approx 7 teeth in the kerf.

So the angle the saw makes with the wood, changes the efficiency of the cutting.

Some people say rip saws are like a collection of chisels. Examining the edge, it may look like chisels, but saws are really more like a collection of planes. Why? Because unlike chisels, saws have soles and throats that clog.

Now think of a smooth plane. Smoothers are little short guys who glide up and down on an undulating surface. It doesn�t make a surface flat, it makes it smooth. Why? Because the sole is short. It can reach into the hollows. If you want flat you need a longer sole.

And thus, we have come to the solution to your problem (sorry I took the long way around the barn). To make a saw cut straight we need a saw with a longer sole. And how do you get that? You lay the saw down, putting more teeth in the kerf. That long sole will flatten out the rollong hills you see. Making a straight saw cut really has nothing at all to do with your blade width, or the frame on your saw, or the tension on your blade. These things matter, but they don�t effect the straightness of a saw cut.

To make a straight saw cut, you�ve got to lay your saw down. But when you do, you are changing the number of teeth in the kerf and you are inviting throat clogging. So you lay it down long enough to correct a mistake, then you stand it back up again when you can.

Adam

Re: Sawing 101

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, Florida

>What kind of blade do you use in your frame saw, Adam?

Re: Sawing 101

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I have several frame saws and use several different blades. Some have band saw blades, others use Wilhelm Putsch blades from H-H. I think I have a sandvik blade. These store bought blades seem to have poor quality and we've talked about this all before. I end up filing and resetting these blades.

Last time I resawed (I wrote about it) I used an old disston rip saw bcause it was the coarsest saw I had. I was resawing 1x12's.

Most of my frame saw use is confined to museum use or scroll work. I think I prefer western saws (we need a better name- France is a western country, but their saws aren't western). Open saw? Plate saw? panel saw? are all terms I've heard.

Adam

As always, Adam

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Great comments. Another print-and-save post.

I'm curious: what are French saws like, then, if not like other "western" saws?

And can't you tell western saws from others by their little Stetson hat?

Thanks all!

JimG

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Re: Sawing 101

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Thank you for the reply.

Why would one use a frame saw for scroll work - as opposed to, for instance, a bow saw?

Saw history

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bill,

Western workers on the European continent (east and west) universally used and continue to use frame saws. The frame saw was known in roman times and was probably in use before that. In skilled hands, its an effective tool.

The saw that we now call the �western saw� was probably first developed by the Dutch in the early 17th century. It had a wide blade, maybe 6 or more inches and was roughly 2� long. The toothed edge had considerable �belly� and its toe was often scrolled and decorated with pierce work. They had integrally forged tangs on which an odd pistol grip handle was fixed. They were push saws.

By the end of the 17th century, England produced a similar, albeit less adorned saw, with a bolted on pistol grip handle. The closed ring type handles followed quickly, possibly preceding similar plane totes. Despite the popularity of the new saws, we can assume English and Anglo-American workmen continued to use frame saws through the first half of the 18th century. The back saw was developed during this time, no doubt a variation on the English saw.

By the end of the 18th century, the English saw (what shall we call it?) dominated English, and Anglo-American shops. These saws, produced by Sheffield�s powerful rolling mills, achieved a level of design optimization that would be lost in future years. These were tools designed for expert users (see Kenyon�s saws in the Seaton chest).

In the late 19th century, Disston improved quality control, and lowered prices, but his designs reflected his cost cutting (skew back) and were generally focused on the masses, not expert users (the handle was repositioned to allow sawing with a dull saw).

So I�m left with the notion that the tool we call the western saw was largely confined to the English woodworking tradition. Names like panel saw, open saw, plate saw and others have been used over the years, but none really adequately describe this unique tool, in my opinion.

Bogus off the top of my head Bibliography

Goodman �History of Woodworking Tools�

Peter C. Welsh �Woodworking Tools �1600-1900�

Mark and Jane Rees �The Toolchest of Benjamin Seaton�

Estate inventories from woodshops:

Williamsburg�s �Arts and Mysteries� series (I can�t recall specifically which ones)

Cheers,

Adam

Re: Saw history

Tony Z.

>Adam,

Thanks for the history! This saw thing seems to be more infectious than planes or chisels (or maybe each time you progress into the next tool, you go deeper into the new toy).

Tony Z.