Observation

8/10/04, 11:59 AM #1

Dan Donaldson
Master Craftsman
Offline
5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Observation

Dan Donaldson

>My wife wants a small box to put something in and this looked like a good opportunity to try lyptus to see how it worked. I found out one thing for sure; That stuff is HARD! I set out to make some dovetails (not fancy as it is just a utility box) and that is when the fun started. I marked the boards, and sawed the first cuts. When I got out the chisels that I normally use for dovetails (some small bench chisels that I have used in everything from poplar to cherry to maple and oak with no problems) and started chopping. After the first few mallet strikes, the edge folded over like I was hitting concrete. I says to myself, 'self, this ain't going to work", so I got out my two cherries, which proceeded to fold over immediately also. I finally had to take one and sharpen it to a much steeper angle to get it to keep an edge long enough to cut out even one section, and had to rehone after every few strikes.

It is being marketed as a look alike for mahogany, which it kinda does, but I am not sure it is worth the extra tool abuse for that purpose. Not sure how it would be for outdoor use because if it is good for weather, I might consider it for benches or something, but for general furniture, I think I will stick to real mahogany as I am a wimp and it does not look enough like the real thing for me to put up with the aggravation.

I now can feel for our friends down under that have woods that are probably even harder.;-)

(I would be willing to put up with it if it were nicer looking, but there are too many other woods that are just as nice IMHO that are a LOT easier to work. I work sometimes with cocobolo, which is also hard, but it is also pretty ;-)

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Observation

8/10/04, 8:15 PM #2

Andrew F
Guest

Thanks Don

Andrew F in Australia

>That's the reason why I use a HSS plane iron - standard Stanley irons last about two strokes on old growth timber, but rose gum (Lyptus' main contributor to the hybrid) is a fairly simple timber to work.

Chisel grind angles of closer to 30 degrees work for me.

If you get offered victorian/alpine ash, it's our main furniture timber - straight grained and works fairly well.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: Observation

8/10/04, 8:22 PM #3

Scott in Douglassville, PA
Guest

Question...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>Why is it that those Down Under woods are so much harder? What is it about climate, soil, grazing wildlife, Steve Irwin, that makes the timber so much more difficult?

Seriously, I'm guessing it's weather and soil, but I'm still curious what the mechanism is that hard weather = hard wood in this case.

Re: Observation

8/10/04, 11:01 PM #4

Jack Guzman from Maine
Master Craftsman
Offline
3,329 posts

Registered: 5/9/04

Re: Observation

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I had the same problem with purpleheart. I was making coffee mills and dovetailing the boxes. My daughter loves the color purple so I figured that for her I would use purpleheart for her mill. I got two sets of tails cut,gave up on my bluechips,got some two cherries then gave up and made her a nice mill out of walnut. I still have those pieces of purpleheart and someday I may regrind some chisels and finish it but I have enough other things to do.---Jack

- - -

I am a carpenter by trade.Also a handyman/Jack -of-all-trades.I work around my neighborhood mostly helping people keep up their old houses.I have a fairly large woodworking shop in my house where I work with both hand and power tools. At the moment I'm focusing on Windsor chairs building.I will build most anything if needed. I'm always learning,adapting,changing trying to broaden my woodworking skills.I work mostly with hand tools in my shop but will use power if it is a better way to get the desired result. My wife,Donna,and I live in the woods of Maine with our dogs,cats,and birds. We have 5 grown kids and six grandchildren. Woodcentral has been central to my growth as a woodworker. I pass through this place every day.

Re: Observation

8/11/04, 2:28 AM #5

John Aniano in NJ
Guest

Re: Observation

John Aniano in NJ

>Dan,

I routinely have to put very high angle bevels on the chisels, gouges and plane blades I use for bowmaking. The woods, including pernambuco, ebony, snakewood and soft metals such as sterling silver (yes, I do actually plane sterling silver) require bevel angles of near 45 degrees and for scraping, I go to near 60 degrees.

I keep a separate set of tools with 25-30 degree bevel angles for "normal" woodworking...

Take care,

John

Re: Observation

8/11/04, 3:08 AM #6

Vic P
Guest

Re: Observation

Vic P

>I would think htat after all these years and all the various available woods, that someone would produce a nice high end set of carbide chisels and plane blades for those with the extra cash burning the hole in their pockets. I knock holes in concrete every day and wouldn't dream of using an ordinary steel drill bit. "Carbide for that down under wood."

Now can one of you smart (smarter than me) guys tell me what is wrong with this thinking?

Re: Observation

8/11/04, 3:21 AM #7

Dan Donaldson
Master Craftsman
Offline
5,264 posts

Registered: 9/17/01

Re: Observation (Jon Arno question?)

Dan Donaldson

>Not sure as I don't have any, but perhaps some of the Japanese chisels would be a better choice for stuff like this, with the harder edges. The only thing that I know, is that for me, at least, this stuff is too hard with no other redeeming qualities for general use by me. I cannot even imagine trying to carve it;-) Unless I have an application where I need hardness as a requirement, I do not plan to use it again. It was a good experience though, sure brought me down a peg in cutting my dovetails;-)

I will still have to look up to see about it's resistance to weather. It might be good for outdoor furniture if it is weather and bug resistant. Good question for mr. Arno.

- - -

I have been woodworking for about 25 years now, and would consider myself an enthusiastic amateur. My claim to fame (or infamy) has always been fixing stuff. I spent time in the Air Force in the 60's then went to work as an electronic technician for civil service. I finally got my EE, and being fed up with the civil service nonsense, took a job with Ford Motor Company until I went with the split to Visteon last year. I got interested in music and started playing in a bluegrass band. I wanted a new guitar, and that kind of led me into woodworking. I bought some books, a few tools, and built a guitar. Luckily, I didn't know any better than to try that as a first ever project. I still play it when I get a chance, so it must not be too bad if it can live for over 20 years. After a stint in Mexico for my job, I moved into a new house and built a small shop. Since then I have been collecting tools and skills, probably more of the former than the latter ;-). Finding this site has done more for my skills and enjoyment than anything else. I have learned a lot and really enjoy the friendships that I have made here. I have been married to LOML (Lori) for 32 years now and have 6 kids. When they are all gone, I want to get a 1 bedroom house (so there is not room for them to move back in) and at least a 6 car heated/air conditioned garage for a shop. (Dream on...)

Re: Observation

8/11/04, 1:13 PM #8

Andrew F
Guest

Re: Answer (of sorts...)

Andrew F in Australia

>Hi Scott,

Some of our species contain a fair bit of embedded silica, and a fair few have roey (= wavy, interlocked) grain.

But, it's all what you get used to - for me it's no drama whatsoever and I don't really know any differently - working pine is the bread and butter stuff.

Dan - don't chop dovetails as much as pare them out, grinding the chisel to 30-35 degrees - approx 30 degrees works for me - makes a honing angle of approx 32 degrees, although I've never measured the angle fully (I hone freehand).

Chopping out dovetails makes short work of the chisel edge. I had a Nooitgedagt chisel last one strike on a mortice (1/4" wide by 2" by 3" deep) and then went to a two cherries Mortice chisel that needed one re-hone in two mortices of the above - the two cherries went well.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: Observation

8/11/04, 1:18 PM #9

Dave Anderson Chester, NH
Guest

Re: Observation (Jon Arno question?)

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Hi Dan- It was great geting to meet you at the 5 Barns picnic. One thing you might want to consider for dovetailing such a hard nasty wood is using a coping saw to cut out most of the waste and doing the final trim with a chisel. But then again, i'm sure you already thought of that.

Observation

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