dovetails and planes

Re: dovetails and planes

Ernie Miller Topeka

>By all means plane your boars befor cutting and assimbling then glue up the joint then thrm the joint with a low angle block plane. Make the joint so the end grain stands just slightly proud then trim flush.

Re: dovetails and planes

Steve M.

>Thank you, Ernie.

Which direction do you plane with the LA block? Into the joint, up and down the edge of the joint, or away from the joint? I presume that planing away from the joint would require a board clamped to the end to prevent tear out.

If I'm doing a half-blind with a rabbeted pin board, then the only direction I can go is up and down the joint.

One other question. I've heard that some people prefer to leave the end grain slightly recessed and then plane the sides down to meet the end grain. What is the benefit of doing it that way?

Thanks again.

Steve

Romans 8:1

Proud or recessed? *LINK*

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Here is a good thread on the subject:


Which way to cut dovetails?

Re: dovetails and planes

GolfSteve in Calgary

>"I've heard that some people prefer to leave the end grain slightly recessed and then plane the sides down to meet the end grain. What is the benefit of doing it that way?"

There's two benefits of doing it this way:

1. You don't have to plane away any end-grain; you're only planing away the long-grain that is proud of the end-grain pins.

2. If you are making a drawer, you size the width of the drawer front and drawer rear to exactly match the carcasse width (the pin board widths exactly match the carcasse width at both the front and rear of the carcasse). If you assemble the drawer with the sides slightly proud of the ends, the drawer will be too wide to fit in the opening. You then plane away the excess width from the sides (long grain), stopping just as you reach the end grain pins. The drawer then exactly fits the opening.

Also align the grain of the drawer sides so that the planing direction is from the front of the drawer towards the rear of the drawer.

As for the best tool for planing the end-grain pins on a drawer, I like to grab a freshly sharpened, finely set #8. Nothing else in my arsenal does the job as easily.

"If I'm doing a half-blind with a rabbeted pin board, then the only direction I can go is up and down the joint"

I've never done a rabbetted dovetailed drawer front (a lipped drawer) but, as you indicated, you will have trouble getting a good finish planing across the long grain. A skewed rabbet plane might work well here. A wide paring chisel, used carefully, might also work. Otherwise you might have to break out the scraper or resort to sandpaper

And one more reason is...

John, NY

>if your end grain is proud then you can't clamp actually on the joint but you can if the side grain is proud!

Like anything in woodworking there are as many solutions as woodworkers and none are truly wrong, unless the woodworker is a man, in which case they're always wrong, apparently!

Re: Proud or recessed?

dave caudill

>I was taught to do the end grain proud as there is a lot less planing to do. If you measure and cut well there is very little endgrain to plane. If you leave the sides proud and want a good fitting drawer you have to plane the whole side of the drawer which seems a bit overkill to me. Planing endgrain with a well sharpened low angle block plane is no big deal. AS someone else mentioned you plane in toward the center so that you don't have tearout problems. Or you can chamfer the ends and work back to that point. You should also skew your cut so that tou are shearing at an angle rather than straight at the end grain. This will save you a lot of trouble.

And don't try to take too much material off at once on the end grain.

If I were you I would cut a couple of test pieces and give it a try. See what works for you and go with it.

Dave

Thank you all...

Steve M.

>Thank you all for your excellent input. I think you have given me a better understanding of the various techniques. I just came from the lumbermill with most of the wood for this project, and I'll let that sit in my shop for a bit. However, I have a little lumber on hand that I can get started with now. I'll probably do my first joints tomorrow. Thanks.

Steve

Romans 8:1

Not so fast

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Steve,

I don't see how you can plane a lipped drawer without a bull nose or some sort of rabbet plane. I think a chisel will work better for you.

Just a couple comments:

1) If you plan for failure (leave it long then plane it off) you guarantee a slow project. I say plan for success then accept what you get.

2) Don't try to net fit (perfect fit) your lipped (or any) drawer to your carcass. You should always design in at least an 1/8" total gap sides and top. I've seen woodworkers brag about their "piston-fit" drawers. Looks good at a show, but the next rainy day... For lipped drawers you want the front to align and locate the drawer. 3/16" or more side gap isn't too much.

3) Along the same lines, you should really make your drawer sides QS. QS wood shrinks in thickness, so whatever you plane to make pretty will change later.

4) Now I can't change any minds, that's not my gift, but I think you shouldn't worry too much about making perfect or even pretty dovetails. In my experience, nobody else cares. Woodworkers sometimes shift their focus from making good looking, well built things to making ugly, exquisitely crafted things. There's a balance. I would say a proud pin is better than a proud craftsman. (not sure what that means but it sounds good)

Adam

Re: Not so fast *LINK*

GolfSteve in Calgary

>"Woodworkers sometimes shift their focus from making good looking, well built things to making ugly, exquisitely crafted things."

There might be another category who focus on making good looking, exquisitely crafted things ;-)

I'm the type of guy who likes perfection in my work and accepts that until I get good, perfection might take a lot of time. My motto is "get good first, then the speed will come." If I recall correctly Adam doesn't mind handtool marks left on a finished surface - showing that the piece was handmade. I on the other hand like to leave a perfectly finished surface - perhaps indistinguishable from a machine finished surface - but I get personal satisfaction out of it.

BTW I like piston fit drawers but admittedly don't have a lot of experience with them. Once fitted properly I don't think that there's any problem with binding in rainy days, etc., but there's a lot of secondary factors at play that must also be correct. I sent a table with piston fit drawers from my local desert like climate (Calgary) to a humid climate (Southern Manitoba) with no binding problems. I haven't had any year-round binding problems with piston fit drawers in my centrally heated, non-airconditioned house either.

While we might be on a different tack for some areas of the craft, I think Adam and I might agree that most Studio furniture isn't our cup of tea.

There's another category of Studio furniture not yet mentioned that is not only ugly, but poorly crafted as well. There were some pieces recently on display in the Vancouver airport which were abominable. One piece in particular was built out of solid maple by someone with no clue about allowing for wood movement. The cracks and misaligned drawers were ample proof of lack of craftsmanship regardless of the appealling design and how well executed the dovetails were.

On the other hand, there's an excellent "high-end" furniture shop (I would call it Studio furniture because it is mostly one-off type stuff) on Vancouver's Granville Island which seems to select from high quality, good looking furniture, and that stuff is worth taking a look at.

ps. the link below has some good drawer making info in it. There's four pages and I can't see any buttons to advance through the pages, so just manually change "drawer1.html" to drawer2.html, etc. in the address bar to see the other pages.


Good Instructions for a Piston Fit Drawer

Re: Not so fast

Steve M.

>Adam and GolfSteve, thanks for the additional advice. I'll be adding this thread to my bookmarks, as it contains a lot of valuable insight. I'll also add all the links that people have given me. I still need to read the link that Adam posted, but that looks to be lengthy reading and will take some time. I'll probably print out those pages and read them during leisure time.

One of the things I have always liked about woodworking is that there are many ways to do things and many forms the final product can take. This thread has been an example of this. I personally am more fond of the ornate styles of furniture from ages past, and I am not drawn to the more modern styles of today. However, I can appreciate the workmanship that goes into the new styles. I can have perfectionist tendencies, but that would depend on the project.

I finished my sharpening stand last night, so depending on how the next several weeks go, the rest of my planes will hopefully be able to earn their keep in my shop. I need to put together a sharpening jig or two, but that shouldn't take too long. I also anticipate a lot of electrolysis, as most of these planes need some work.

Steve

Romans 8:1

The FurnitureMaker.com site link - question

Jim Stafford in GA

>I recently found this site as well and it is loaded with info. The site index is not too helpful as the pages are not well named. In fact, as I went through the site index, I did find pages 1,2, & 4 on the drawer making subject, named something entirely different.

However, does anyone have an idea how to see the diagrams referenced? I suppose I could write to the school and ask them. These seem to be magazine article reprints and seems rather futile to have the articles online with no pictures.

JimInGa