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LV LA jack

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LV LA jack

#1

LV LA jack

Robin Frierson

>I have been using this plane a lot lately and the more I use it the more I like it. That long nose really helps in jointing short pieces and it does a great job smoothing with a 37 degree blade. And what a wonderful end grain plane with the 25degree blade.

It has the mass I always thought was missing from the LN 62. I never thought I would find a plane I like better than the LN 62, but I have. Anyone else enjoying this plane? Lyn, are you planing a review of this plane?

Re: LV LA jack

#2

Re: LV LA jack

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sounds like a great plane. Why don't you do a comparison review?

Pam

Re: LV LA jack

#3

Re: LV LA jack

Ted Shuck

>I got one for Father's Day and have only used it on a shooting board so far. Much more satisfying than any other plane I have used on a shooting board to date. The extra mass and extra length really seem to help. I like the adjusting screw for the mouth as well. Great plane!

Ted

Re: LV LA jack

#4

Re: LV LA jack and other new planes review?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>The issuo of a review is a tough one for me.

First off, I absolutely love this plane. It has instantly become one of a handlful of my favorite and highest performing planes. And together with the SMT may become my smoother of choice for difficult woods, as it just amazes me what it can do with a effective cutting angle of 63 degrees.

(Yah, yah, I know some believe that only short planes are appropriate for smoothers. Well this is true in some instances with surfaces that have mildly warped after construction, but in my world that isn't often the case. My criteria is surface finish and some longer planes regularly give me outstanding surface finish---so, I shouldn't use them because they are long?)

I like doing reviews and I think there are lots of things to say about bevel up planes in general, where this plane sits with respect to the line up of LV and L-N "LA" planes, and specific characteristics of the LV 62.5

But, and for some of you this may be a big "but," I had a lot of input on this plane, from the earliest design stages. Now the joke is that a lot of what I suggest is never incorporated into the plane, and some things I have long advocated for, I didn't even mention with respect to this plane, yet they ended up in the design from some of the earliest stages (e.g., a screw adjustable mouth). To add to the joke, my input is often very bluntly critical (and blunt my be euphamistic in this context) about where I believe a design or prototype differs from my idea of perfection. Again, sometimes that results in a change, other times it doesn't (for example, I despise side circles and regularly complain that the planes need to be more adaptable for hand size, but do you notice my utter lack of influence in these areas).

So, the issue is whether folks will find valuable and appropriate a review written after I have had such input into the plane's design (again, not necessarily influence, but definitely input). At this point, I've not formally reviewed either the LV 62.5 or their new Bullnose (and to a lesser extent, the LV Scraper Plane) because of this, and it's apt to be much the same for several planes into the future. It's not always an easy position for me to take, particularly when my experiences differ (better or worse) from other reviews I read, and my knowledge that a formal review lingers on as a resource far longer and issues can be better developed in a broader context than any series of comments on a forum. I'm interested in the viewpoints of others on this general issue.

Re: LV LA jack

#5

Lyn, here are my thoughts

Bryan Danner - Broad Ripple, IN

>Lyn,

This is a tough situation. On one hand, I would really appreciate your thoughts on these planes, since, in the past, you have performed some of the most comprehensive and objective comparitive studies I've seen in this area.

Having said that, I understand the need for objectivity in reviews, especially when doing comparitive studies involving planes from other manufacturers. Without objectivity, the audience may be just as well served reading the product descriptions written by the manufactueres themselves. Further, it might be a bit unfair comparing a LV plane you were involved with, to one from another manufacturer, espcially if the other plane is the benchmark from which you helped develop the improvements found on the LV.

Perhaps a self contained review might be in order where you examine only the LV plane in question and discuss your impressions of the plane; what you like, dislike, preferred applications, range of use, set-up tips, etc. It might also be interesting to know what elements of the plane you impacted, and what elements you were hoping for, that did not make it into the production plane (assuming, that you are at liberty to disclose such information).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I would really enjoy reading some type of evaluation from you on these planes. A comparison type review might be too akward for your liking, but I believe there is middle ground between a full-blown comparitive study, and nothing at all.

-Bryan

Re: LV LA jack

#6

Re: LV LA jack and other new planes review?

Jeff Mackay, Milwaukee

>Lyn,

If you disclose up front that you had input into the design, I don't think it should be a problem--as long as you're not profiting from sales that result from a positive review. If you don't benefit from the review, I don't think it's a conflict of interest.

Jeff

Re: LV LA jack

#7

Re: LV LA jack and other new planes review?

Steve Denvir

>Lyn, I think you are the pickiest, most anal, most detail-obsessed reviewer I have ever read. Which is _exactly_ what I'm looking for in a tool review. I've learned more about planes from your reviews than any review in any wood magazine I've ever read.

So my response to your conundrum is to ask you to just tell us the truth. Tell us what you think, how the tool feels, how it works, whatever you like.

I can see disagreements and discussions coming out of this, but I can't imagine anyone here ever questioning your objectivity or integrity.

BTW, take this message as an implicit "thank you" for all the work you've already done.

Regards

Steve in Toronto

Re: LV LA jack

#9

Objectivity: Myth or Mythunderstood?

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Lyn,

I found this tonight and would like to share it with you.

"In the minds of most, objectivity means the observation of events from the perspective of someone removed from what is being observed, i.e., outside the events observed. Thus, whatever it is to be observed or analyzed is not contaminated or biased by the characteristics of the observer. But, in reality, can anyone, in principle, ever remove himself or herself from the report of observations?" The Mayor of Anmore

The objectivity you seek to embrace is an elusive wisp of a thing that exists only in theory. I must admit that there appears to be an unusually high level of delusional objectivity present in the mainstream media ;>)!!

I don't value your writings because of your 'objectivity' but rather because of your integrity (at least my perception of it) as well as your gifts of observation and communication coupled with an unusual willingness to freely share your insights. Your contribution to this forum (and I'm certain that this is not atypical of your life) inspires, encourages, and influences all who read it. Please carry-on, by all means!

The quote that follows states the matter precisely and exposes the conundrum alluded to in your post:

" It is not that we misunderstand each other, but rather that we believe that we understand the other, which causes so much difficulty." Wittgenstein.

Frank, who's going to turn the lights off now.

Re: LV LA jack

#10

Me?

Robin Frierson

>In all honesty Pam, I think everyone here would much rather hear Lyn's comments on the plane. He has many more hours on the plane and probably knows its better than anyone. Plus he is in a position to compare it to some other planes I dont have. My short review would be its a great plane and I look forward to trying some higher angles.

Re: LV LA jack

#11

Re: Me?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>We can't rely on Lyn for all reviews. For example, Alf (Alice Frampton) recently posted 6 or so reviews on LV planes at Roger's Traditional Tools site. They were wonderful. I'd like to get more voices rather than fewer. Same for Chris Schwarz's report on the Shepherd chariot plane kit.

Besides, Lyn seems very busy, not having had time to finish a long-awaited review. This is NOT any sort of criticism of Lyn, not implied either.

Pam

Re: LV LA jack

#12

Second that

Bob Hackett

>Think of yourself as our "man on the street",Robin.We know that Lyn`s in depth reviews are always going to be a reference for us but occasionally the working man`s point of view is appreciated.You have both the LV and the LN,why not give us YOUR opinion in a side by side comparison.

Then again,you could just ship them both to me and I could do it for you.Shouldn`t take more than a couple years to properly evaluate them both.;^)

Mainely,Bob

Re: LV LA jack

#13

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: LV LA jack and other new planes review?

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I love to see your reviews wherever they may be posted. The bullnose is a very well made plane. I think it's a tough one to squeeze into service.

Re: LV LA jack

#14

Agree

Roger Nixon

>Robin, you have an excellent body of experience and I would welcome your obsevations on any tool.

Re: LV LA jack

#15

I think we have his review...

John K in Hastings, MN

>"First off, I absolutely love this plane. It has instantly become one of a handlful of my favorite and highest performing planes. And together with the SMT may become my smoother of choice for difficult woods, as it just amazes me what it can do with a effective cutting angle of 63 degrees."

I think I have plane #2, which I have unpacked, inspected approvingly and set down again. Something about an infant at home and being on my 11th midnight shift out of 14 in a row. Still, I instantly liked the plane. Thick blade, easy throat adjustment, good weight and the out of box cut was OK. (I really need to clean the protective grease off and sharpen the blade, though). I also got the bullnose, which I took apart but also haven't had a chance to put through its paces. I'm starting to get a bunch of these, and I'm liking them a lot. Next on the list is the larger shoulder plane and a HA blade for the LA jack.

John

Re: LV LA jack

#16

Re: LV LA jack and other new planes review?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I know that I do not stand alone in wanting to read your detailed evaluation of this plane. In the most direct sense, I do not see how your having given your suggestions to Lee Valley should affect our wanting to read about your thoughts and experiences with the plane.

If I did not know you as well as can be with an online friend, I guess that the only negative consideration would be this: If a tester receives pleasure from being an insider and a pre-production tester of tools from a company, and if he would risk the continuation of such a relationship by posting any negative thoughts about the tools, it would be natural to conclude that there would be a tendency to suppress or equivocate about any negative conclusions.

Just write a disclosure in the evaluation, and let the reader make his own decision about your objectivity.

Re: LV LA jack

#17

just curious

Rod Cole

>Hmmm,

Good to great for: jointing short boards, end grain, on a shooting board, and smoothing.

Isn't this the plane someone got jumped all over for suggesting as a good first plane because it was a good all around versatile plane?

Or was that some other LA jack?

- Rod Cole

Re: LV LA jack

#18

Re: Greg Sloop!!!!!!!!

Brad in Ottawa

>In case you are serious... yes this is the plane that Greg Sloop got jumped all over for recommending as a great, versatile first plane purchase.

He hasn't forgotten it since!!!! Right Greg???? Hope he feels vindicated and is walking a little taller.

Brad

Re: LV LA jack

#19

Re: Greg Sloop!!!!!!!!

Greg Sloop

>Oh, I'm just slaving away on my pine bookshelves - purely dimensioned pine though. Couldn't risk tackling anything more demanding...

Just to prove that I really can build book-shelves out of pine, here pictures to prove it...

Book-shelf 1


Close up!


(Oh, I guess I didn't even need the handplane for that. Hmmmm... Well, how about this? I know, I know...I didn't get Jonathan Peck's permission, I'll go sit in the corner now...)

This is *almost* a book-shelf out of dimensioned pine isn't it? (All with that crappy swiss army plane. Damn, how did that happen?)


Cheers,

Greg

Re: LV LA jack

#20

Re: Greg Sloop!!!!!!!!

Rod Cole

>Nice little table, but if you use really tight joints, or even some glue, you don't have to keep the clamps on.

:)

- Rod Cole

Re: LV LA jack

#21

LOL!

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>

Re: LV LA jack

#22

Re: Greg Sloop!!!!!!!!

Greg Sloop

>*laughs*

Glue!?

Damn, I knew I was missing something!

I thought that stuff in the titebond bottle was shop snacks! No wonder it tastes lousy.

Kidding aside

Ok, the clamps are now off. That was a 2a shot just after glue up. However, I forgot the groove on the end aprons until I had the two ends all assembled. Fortunatly I'd used poly glue and could have enough open time to pull the legs off and run the whole assembly over the table saw. (That was a bit tricky! I was waiting for the launch into orbit...or at least the shop wall...)

Anyway. All is well that ends well.

Thanks for the compliments!

Greg

Re: LV LA jack

#23

HIJACK: Table Top?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Would you care to describe the materials and methods you used to make the top of the table? It looks interesting.

Re: LV LA jack

#24

Re: HIJACK: Table Top?

Greg Sloop

>The wood is Jatoba (Brazillian Cherry).

The inlay is Lacewood. I had a chunk of 8/4 here. I've used it for box tops etc. Very nice piece, and I've not seen any at Crosscut (the local great wood store) since.

Plus, nicely cut, lacewood is hard to find. A fair bit of the stuff I saw a while back was almost flat sawn. Kind of misses the point for lacewood. Anyway...

Jatoba is not a cherry at all, but is reddish and looks a bit like cherry. However, it's lots heavier and harder. More even pore structure from what I hear, so even stain application etc goes easier. Also lots of silica. Dulls steel very quickly. Lots of sharpenings on my handplanes.

The top is almost a burl as the grain there is particularly pronounced. (burl is the wrong term, but I don't know the right term either...lots of inclusions? Someone needs to enlightedn me on the right terms.) It may look bookmatched, but that's just a fluke. One board ~10" wide and the way it cut up just ended up looking very nice - a small bif of planning, but more luck than anything.

I cut the spindles from that same piece and they were clearly under tension/compression as they bent and deformed a fair bit when cut into 1/2 X 1/2" spindles.

The size is 31X25 or so. It's a "coffee" table for the living room.

Someone recently posted about clamping cauls for panels and I decided to make a couple. These clamp the panels as flat as possible. I could have done a better job on the top, but it's close to flat. The shelf I did for this table was great - very very flat.

The cauls are just 2X3 construction lumber with one face jointed as flat as possible. The other caul has a slight radius on it - end to end. Lay some duct tape so stuff doesn't stick and off to the races. I put a bolt thru one end, and clamp the other with my quick grip clamps. Then I use standard bar clamps to hold the panel together. Veritas has a much neater looking clamp that I'm likely to get at some point. But this is the cheap mans way.

I've had never done an inlay before. I have an Incra Fence on my Jet contractor saw and the Incra miter sled and with those I was able to get a really good fit. (Not all the inlay "slots" are the exact same width. They vary about 0.020-0.032 from widest to the most narrow. They are straight and true though. Being able to narrow the inlays by 0.008 each pass made fitting them up a whole lot easier.

I cut in the inlay into the top by about 3/32" - just used a router and a clamping straightedge. One side at a time. I'd intended to lay it all out and clamp to the drawn lines. I ended up using an adjustable T-square and tapping the straight edge up to the Tsquare and clamping it down.

I kept going too far out on the outside edges, and having to move the outside edge further and further out. Started at 1.5" in and ended up at 1.0" in instead.

The whole idea of the inlay scared me a bit. I didn't have much time to complete the project and I was probably nuts for concluding I could do it, but for once it mostly went right.

I cut the inlay on the BS to about 5/32-6/32 and left the BS cut face unfinished. (Setting up a jig to run through the planer or anything else seemed suicidal!)

Glued the inlay's good face to the table top one side at a time (Tightbond III) and then hand planed the inlay down to the top of the table. I'd have used poly, but I wanted to be able to work it quickly. I didn't have a whole day just to glue down the inlays. PVA creeps, so we'll see over time just how problematic the PVA will be.

Planing down the corners of the inlay where the miters meet was more difficult, but a very sharp blade at 65 deg was helpful. (I used a LN62 with a blade sharpened to about 53-54 deg + 12 deg bed = ~65 deg.)

Took a very light cut and tried to cut both faces at 45 deg to the grain. once I got really close, I then made very light cuts as close to the same as the grain as possible.

Finally hand sanded where needed, such as joints that could still be felt, card scraped it, and ROS.

Last I added the 45 deg chamfer and trimmed it up with my block plane.

The spindles and corner joinery is all M&T.

Now I just have a lower shelf to setup, and I'll surprise my wife with it when she gets back from vacation and she gets to pick what kind of finish/stain she wants. I want to leave it natural with a wipe on poly over the top, but we'll see.

Anyway, thanks. I'm quite surprised. I was worried about the inlay and having to trash the whole top and start over.

Here are some more pictures with some text...some is duplicate of what you may have already seen...

Roughing in the inlay. Hand-plane-ing down to table top. You can see my

layout lines for routing out the inlay. (Didn't end up using them, but I had

it all "figured" out...isn't that the way it always goes?)


Wider angle pic of same


Corner detail after final prep and wipe with mineral spirits.


Addl detail


Close up..


Whole table top shot


Partial detail - the lacewood looks beautiful - IMHO. *grin*


Chamfered the top. It looks splotchy because the mineral spirits are drying fast in the sun. (Got burned good today working on the blasted thing. Myriad of problems, but I think it'll be ok. Ugh.


Here's an end frame. Notice the spindles. That's 22 mortise and tenons - on each end! Again, Ugh!


Finally have it all ready to glue up - or so I thought. I'd forgotten the slot in the top short runner that takes the hardware to attach the top. It allows the solid top to swell and contract as humidity changes. I had the frame glued up as in the last picture, and then had to pull the legs off and run the two frame/spindle assemblys over the saw blade (buried) to cut the retention slot. (Still have all my fingers, and no saw kickback. At least something's going right.

Also, the mortise and tenons into the legs were *much* looser than I had wanted. I hope they hold. Used polyurathane glue, so I hope they will.

There's a story in there about using a new tool, the Leigh FMT in this case, on a project at the last minute. But I'll save it for later. I'm sure everyone here's experienced it before...


Another shot from another angle. There will be a shelf that is even with the top of the lower arched rail. It's not shown in any of the pictures. (It has to be cut to fit the exact size after glue-up.


I just dropped the top on so I could gloat a bit more. (Until morning when I find my mortises didn't glue right. (Fingers crossed)




When I get a final finish up I'll go back and do a more full write up. I'm as surprised as anyone that it's turned out so very well. Total building time was probably less than four days, which has to be a record for me.

This is a partial regurgitation of some emails I've sent to friends and family detailing the project so it may be a bit disjointed. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer.

As noted above this is a surprise gift for my wife. Lets just hope she doesn't read wood-central huh? *grin* So you all keep your mouths shut ok? (Email is fine as my email is mostly private and she has her own email account.)

Thanks for the compliments and inquires. I'm glad to answer what I can. I'm no expert. I'm more feeling lucky. Perhaps I should go buy a lottery ticket eh?

Cheers,

Greg

Re: LV LA jack

#25

Re: HIJACK: Table Top?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Thank you for the highly detailed post!

I have not used any, but I have fondled the lacewood at the local high-priced wood store, Shell Lumber. It looked like it would tear-out at the drop of a hat.

I had mistakenly thought, from viewing your original post with a crummy laptop screen, that the tabletop was made with some sort of plywood in the center, and with double edge banding giving the look of inlay. From your photos and description, I see that it is much higher quality than that!

Do not forget to post a picture when you have it finished.

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