Hand saws

Re: Hand saws

Ernie Miller Topeka

>keep an eye out for disston d4 back saws 10 or 12" and have them sharpened the way you want crosss cut or rip with the TPI that you need. for a good out of the box saw the independance saw that LN sells ot the Spears? saw from Canada are great.

Re: Hand saws

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>I was told by Tom Law that the older backsaws from Disston have better quality steel than any of modern makers. Unfortunately, here in Texas, antique backsaws are about as common as $3 bills (even Tom said they were scarce in this part of country). I've had ok luck finding backsaws on Ebay. Prices generally range from $15 to $50 depending on the condition which is still cheaper than a LN or Adria saw even if you have to send it out to be sharpened. True Disston dovetail saws (no 68 or no 70) on the other hand tend to go for about what the modern makers charge ($100 - $150). I have a LN dovetail saw that is very nice. I really don't see how the older Disston could really be that much better.

Wendell

Re: Hand saws

David Miller from Iowa

>I�d suggest a good dovetail and 2 carcass saws, one filed crosscut and one filed rip. The backsaws are running maybe $40 each on ebay, but the dovetails are going higher and if you start to get up to $100 I�d bite the bullet and get the LN because you take out the risk of getting a dud. Lot�s of debate on here on saw steel, but I would just look for an older saw which you can tell by how well formed the handle is (flowing curves instead of a jig sawed plank that had a router run around it).

They�ll need sharpening and I always encourage people do to it themselves. There is a real paradox out there that I don�t understand. Filing a saw isn�t any harder than tuning a plane and the learning curve is about the same. Most people wouldn�t think of sending a plane cutter out for someone else to sharpen, in fact the satisfaction of putting the cutter right is part of the allure. Same with western saws.

I know a lot of you do file saws, but many more don�t. For those who don�t, what is it that is so daunting?

I agree

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Filing a saw isn�t any harder than tuning a plane and the learning curve is about the same. Most people wouldn�t think of sending a plane cutter out for someone else to sharpen, in fact the satisfaction of putting the cutter right is part of the allure.

Boy I like David Miller! He knows his stuff.

Only thing I'd like to add is there is no practical compromise between tenon saws and DT's. I'd buy a new DT, and then find the longest (non miter) backsaw you can get. Traditional tenon saws are 18". If you can find a 14 or 16" disston, buy it. Sharpen 9ppi rip.

Now I forget who mentioned it, but I second the notion of finding (sorry) yet another long back saw and filing it cross cut. I have a 14" disston back saw filed x and I love it. Very handy. That's all the backsaws you should need for a while. If you get into diminuitive drawers (if your building a secretary for example) you'll need a smaller DT saw.

Adam

Adam

Re: Hand saws

Ted Shuck

>I have managed to coll^H^H^H^H accumlate at least two backsaws in each size from 8" to 14", plus a rip saw in 16". I have a crosscut and rip saw in each of those 4 sizes, plus two 30" miter box saws filed crosscut.

The ones that I use most are 12" crosscut, the 8" and 10", and 16" rip saws. I occasionally use a 10" crosscut saw. I use the 8" and 10" rip saws for dovetails, depending on the stock thickness. The 8" saw has finer teeth and works better for thin stock. The 16" saw is used for tenons, except for very small ones where I use the 10" saw.

If I were only buying saws to use, I would buy an 8" or 10" dovetail saw, 16" tenon saw, and a 12" crosscut saw. I have more saws than I can justify for use, but I enjoy using all of them occasionally.

In general, I prefer a brass-backed saw. They are heavier and feel more stable. Some steel backs are heavier than others as well. I have a 12" Jackson steel-backsaw than feels about half the weight of my 12" Disston steel-back saw, which feels much lighter than a 12" Spear and Jackson 12" brass-back saw.

Definitely learn to sharpen saws. It is NOT that hard to do. Another way to gain satisfaction from your work; I like both the sharpening and using sharp saws.

Ted

I agree too! *LINK*

Angelo in Cornwall, NY

>Filing saws is not as mysterious as most think. I gave it a whirl about 6 months ago and now can do an 8 point 26" xcut saw in about 15 min. The satisfaction of cutting with a good handsaw is doubled (at least) by knowing you sharpened it yourself. Find an old beater saw and start practicing!


My Webpage

Eyesight

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Until I get a better prescription for my glasses or get a magnifier/light that works I will send mine out.I just plain can't see the teeth well enough to file them. I tried. Made a mess of it.---Jack

also

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I can't see the edge on my blades either,but I don't need to to get then sharp.

Re: Eyesight

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Jack I have a few idea's about lighting and sight problems. I put in 6500K impoved daylight bulbs in the shop. I use a bench mounted magnifing glass with the floresent tube. Also I have a felxible head incandesent light on a stand that will sit on the bench or floor. If the work is really fine I prefer the head mounted magnifing glasses that flip down. I also have a 30x magnifing glass with a light I picked up at the institute for the blind. Seems like alot of stuff just to sharpen tools but it's a lot of fun.

A real issue

David Miller from Iowa

>Jack, I can empathize with you. About 10 years ago, I flew my Father to Atlanta for one of Jay Rickett�s saw filing seminars at Highland Hardware. Never mind that both he and I knew how to file saws � it was a prodigal son thing trying to reconnect after years of concentration on the career and money thing (I�d do it differently if I had an opportunity).

Anyway, he was the oldest in the group and strangely hesitant. In the 1960�s, I�d seen him file a saw to perfection in maybe 10 minutes � I could never do it like he could. I was smugly thinking he should be teaching the class instead of Jay. But I was taken aback at his mediocre efforts when we were doing elementary filing exercises. He complained he couldn�t stand all day and became an observer. About a year later he had glaucoma surgery and admitted that he couldn�t see jack that day.

A couple years ago I lost the lust for saw filing and just stopped. I got bifocals about 6 months ago and now I�m back at it. Strange how I didn�t know the vision thing was really the reason for my frustration.

Anyway, good luck. And everybody out there � learn to file a saw, it�s every bit as satisfying as planing a board to shavings for no other reason than you sharpened the cutter to perfection yourself.

Re: Hand saws

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Some will argue that LN and Adria saw's are expensive. Since no one has mentioned them as a bargin I will. They are such a joy to use cut straight out of the box I have thought many times it was money well spent.

Re: Eyesight

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I haven't given up entirely on sharpening. Just for the moment. I have a new eye exam coming up soon and I have plans to learn sharpening on a larger rip saw.It irks me to have someone else do a job for me that I should be able to do myself.

The reason I posted my reply was in answer to David's question"For those who don't,what is it that is so daunting?"---Jack

Re: Eyesight *LINK*

Ted Shuck

>I think I have mentioned this here before, but I have a hard time seeing well enough to file the fine teeth (more than 12ppi) on dovetail saws with my regular reading glasses. I have some flip-down 2x magnifying lenses that I use when fishing. I put these on top of my reading glasses and I can clearly see 17ppi teeth and file them. You can get these at most fishing stores for about $10. I googled for them and found a place that sells them at the link below.

Works for me!

Ted


flip-down magnifying lenses

What Jack Said

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>What is so daunting is that I can not see the teeth very well - especially a fine-toothed back saw.

Maybe one of these days I will get a new reading glasses prescription, special lighting, special magnifiers, a clamping and sighting setup, special files, and give it a go. Even with all of that, I dread the idea of trying to change a 11 pt xcut to a 14 pt. rip, like I had Tom Law do for me once.

I did re-set an 8 pt. xcut saw. That was hard enough (vision-wise).

Don - missing Tom Law already.

Re: What Jack Said

Ted Shuck

>I had a really hard time setting teeth and not getting out of order on them (even, odd) before I learned to mark the teeth before setting them. I'm not sure where I read this, but marking the even/odd teeth with a sharpy before setting makes it a *LOT* easier.

When filing a crosscut saw, I always set before filing the fleam angle, since then I can easily see which teeth need to be filed on which side.

Ted

Tooth Marking

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Yeah, I read that too, somewhere. It is a big help.

I probably should not admit this...

but I was interrupted in the middle of adding some set to the teeth, put away the saw, and forgot about it. I had only set every other tooth. Some time later, it took me a while to figure out why the saw tracked so badly. D'oh!

Magnifying lenses for fishing

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>Ted,

Most fisherfolk brag about how big the fish are - you need a magnifying glass to see them?

Just teasing, I know it's probably so you can see to tie the leader on and all. It just struck me funny, and I thought I'd inflict it on the group

Re: Magnifying lenses for fishing

Ted Shuck

>Bill,

If you are fishing for the challenge of it, rather than for food, those tiny ones are much harder to catch. <;^)

Real story... I fly fish, and the flies needed around here (South Platte) are usually size 20 or smaller, about 1/8" long. The fish eat tiny midges and baetis mayflies. I can't see to tie them on without some extra help.

Ted

Re: Eyesight

Alan Hamilton

>Jack,

My eyesight is not very good. Because of my eyes I cannot drive, cannot read very much very fast, ad infinitem, but I can still sharpen my rip-tooth saws.

I got myself one of those visors with magnifying lenses. With the right lenses they allow me to sharpen large rip teeth. You can get different diopter lenses for the visor. I mostly use an 8 diopter and a 12 diopter. If your eyes are better than mine I'd say you wouldn't need anything stronger than an 8 diopter.

IIRC Highland Hardware sells the visors and the different strength lenses, as do our pals at Lee Valley.

Alan

Re: Eyesight

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks Alan, I had planned on looking into one of those magnifying gismos once I get my eyes reexamined.---Jack

Re: What Jack Said

David Miller from Iowa

>Good point. I have fouled up the setting opertation before - more than once. It's tragic to look down your nicely finshed saw and see two consecutive teeth going the same way. It's generally tough to fix.

David