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Singing saws

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Singing saws

#1

Singing saws

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Apparently there is something to the singing or ringing saw phenomenon. As I understand it, any metal will ring to some extent. But I'm told a hardened metal will ring differently.

Surface finish, including pits and rust will greatly effect sustain and ring quality, as will thickness and to a lesser extent hard and soft spots, or creases or dings. (In a previous post I guessed dings or hard spots, but failed to recognize the importance of surface finish).

Its not a great way to judge a saw, but it is a valid first step, not to be summarily dismissed. Here's what I understand, I don't know the physics behind any of this:

* A clean saw that doesn't ring may have a flaw you haven't noticed.

* A rusty saw that doesn't ring, may ring after a thorough cleaning.

* A saw that rings nicely with good sustain probably has a good surface finish, maybe uniform in thickness.

* A saw that sounds like another saw you like, may be similar in quality.

Adam

P.S. I've heard Todd discount the ringing anvil test. In case you are unfamiliar, some smiths say you should tap an anvil before buying. A good clear, sustained ring means the anvil is sound. A thud may mean the casting has a flaw or it has a hairline crack. I'm told the singing saw is a similar phenomenom.

Re: Singing saws

#2

Re: Singing saws

David Miller from Iowa

>Interesting onservations, Adam. But counterinuitive to my understanding of sound generation. From whence does your understanding come? Not saying you're wrong, just wanting to see the data or sources upon which you make these assertions.

Regards, David

Re: Singing saws

#3

Re: Singing saws

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I don't understand how this works. I got a "D" in this class. I may be misquoting, since I don't always understand the answers to my questions. I'll bet somebody here can help.

Adam

Re: Singing saws

#4

my guess

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>I am not an acoustic scientist or whatever the term may be, but I am moderately informed in the area. Sound likes to travel through consistent density and bounces best off of smooth hard surfaces. This is one of the reasons why snare drums are not stuffed with insulation.

So a smooth hard saw with a clean surface will generate and sustain a tone better than one without those features. Even a sheet of metal with varying thicknesses could alter a soundwave traveling through it. Our ears are amazing instruments and can tell very minute differences once trained. So I think listening to a saw would make sense.

Re: Singing saws

#5

Re: Singing saws

Alan Hamilton

>Perhaps it's similar to ceramics and for the same reasons. An umdamaged ceramic will ring when you hold it on fingertips and strike it with a fingernail. If it "thuds" when struck it means it has a crack somewhere; sometimes too many chips or crazing will also cause it to not ring.

Alan

Re: Singing saws

#6

Re: Singing saws

Todd Hughes

>I have made those dinner triangle bells/ gongs befor and if you don't make them out of high Carbon steel[ I used coil springs] they don't ring a dang. Didn't have to temper them but did have to be steel.I think maybe a cheap saw might not sing like a better saw because of the steel but don't know about using this method to find a good saw. Easier to just look for one that says Disston, Simonds, Atkins and you will have a good saw,[not that there ain't 100 more good names!]

Lots of Blacksmith like an Anvil that rings but not me a better test is to see how the table of the anvil bounces a hammer head you let fall on it loosly. A good anvil will skip it around while a dead one it will bounce twice or so and that is that.Trie it on a face of a vice to see what a dead anvil is like.I like a Fisher Anvil which being cast sounds like a bag of wet cement but has a very good bounce.No anvil will ring if setting in mud and I have used that to my advantage when buying them....Todd

Re: Singing saws

#7

Another case of........

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>No anvil will ring if setting in mud and I have used that to my advantage when buying them.... Todd,

Seller Beware eh Todd? ;~) Ahhhhhhhhhhh man you crack me up. If I knew just half of what you've forgotten I'd consider myself a pretty fart smeller. ;~)

Todd O.

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