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Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

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Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#1

Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

Jim O'Neal

>I received my Mk.II Power Sharpening System yesterday. I tried it out today. It worked great on my chisels. I sharpened a set of Sorby's and a set of the new Lie-Nielsen chisels in about 15 minutes and was pleased with the outcome.

Plane irons, however, were another story. The first plane iron I tried to sharpen was the 2 1/2" iron for my Clark & Williams Try Plane. It was a disaster. I could not grind the bevel without grinding it out of square. When I tried to true the iron on the machine by applying more pressure on one edge than the other, the best I could get was a "wavy" edge. After two hours of trying to square the iron, and ginding off about 3/8" of the iron in the process, I gave up. Since the C&W is a wooden plane, blade squareness is important. Now I will have to spend a lot of time squaring and sharpening the iron by hand. I bought this machine so I wouldn't have to do that. $300 is an awfully expensive piece of equipment to use ony to sharpen chisels.

Is this machine not recommended for irons in the 2 1/2" width range? I have several planes which use 2 3/8" and 2 1/2" irons and I'm really hesitant to use this machine to sharpen them.

Is this a situation where practice makes perfect, or should I not use it to sharpen my 2 3/8" and

2 1/2" plane irons? I don't know whether to buy more sand paper or return it. Or, should I admit that I am a complete dummy and take up another hobby (this will get my wife's vote)?

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#2

Mark Meier (Ann Arbor, MI)

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening Sy

Mark Meier (Ann Arbor, MI)

>I've done a lot of sharpening on that machine with wider irons and it works well, although it is easier with narrow irons. The only problem I can think of: We you using both sides of the platter? That is, when you were grinding the bevel were you moving the entire blade alternately from the left side of center as well as to the right of center. If not, the part of the iron at the outside of the wheel will be ground a lot more than the part to the inside (since a lot more sandpaper is moving past on the outside edge). By moving the iron from side to side you tend to balance this out. Also, make sure to slide the iron part way off the platter since that'll let more of the "inside" of the iron experience the faster moving portions of the platter.

(You may have been doing this already in which case forgive me for asking the question).

Mark

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#3

Platter problems -- perhaps

Christopher Schwarz

>Jim,

I'm sure Rob Lee could better diagnose the problem than I could, but I was experiencing the same problems when we first received our Mk. II. As it turns out, one of the platters (the thin one) wasn't flat.

The problem was exacerbated on wider irons, of course, but it was there with the chisels, too. It was just more difficult to detect. Lee Valley gladly sent me a replacement and it's honing much better now.

You might also want to double-check your tool rest before calling however. If it has slipped and isn't parallel to your platter you could -- in some instances -- produce the same problem when honing a previously ground iron.

I'm sure other here could give you more valuable pointers than these.

Chris

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#4

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening Sy

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Ah, the frustrations we experience in life. Yesterday I spent almost 4 hours trying to get my usually very reliable Stihl chainsaw to run-all to no avail. Fortunately I already have had so many good experiences with the chainsaw, that I didn't see it as a bad piece of equipment.

If your chisels have ground square, then it is unlikely your problems are due to aligment of the bar or defective platters. Possible, but pretty unlikely. If they haven't, then the most likely cuplrit is that the support bar for the carraige is not parallel to the platters. Your manual will tell you how to check for this and make the adjustment.

For now, lets assume that the machine is adjusted correctly and that you have now defective parts (the most likely scenario given your success sharpening the chisels). Now it becomes a matter of the inherent characteristics of the machine, and/or your technique (which in part can compensate for the machines inherent characteristics.

Others have referred to it in this thread, and I have discussed it at some length in previous threads, any rotating flat platter sharpening system (whether LV or Makita or lapidary laps), when used with a blade that travels along or parallel to a radius, will encouter different rates of abrasive passing across the blade according to how far out from the center a point on the blade is located. The differences are miniscule and basically inconsequential for blades up to 1 inch, have only minor effect up to 2 inches, and have significant effect for blades over 2 inches. Frankly for blades of 2-3/8 inches up to 2-1/2 inches (which, as you know, it the maximum the carriage will deal with), some compensatory technique is required.

First, mark your bevel with a black magic marker so that you have an easy reference to determine your progress. tis works very well if the existing bevel is square, but you may need to supplement this with frequent checks with a square if you are working with an accidentally skewed blade. Use the magic marker between each platter change to confirm you have not strayed, in the course of moving through the gits.

The next most important thing you can do is use both the leading and trailing sides of the platter. This moves the area of faster removal from one side to the other. On a very wide blade, you may still get a slight overgrind on the outsides of the blade, but rarely is this a problem, and a lot of people go to a lot of trouble to put a very minor crown on their blade such as you will achieve automatically.

Third, establish any major geometry changes with a seperate grinder or with very coarse abrasives used on the LVPSS. For major geometry changes, 80 grit is simply not aggressive enough and takes a long time. A platter set up with a 46-60 grit Zirconium abrasive is a good idea if you don't have a seperate grinder (you can get these via the latest catalog from Supergrit). I don't know if this observation is consistent with physics, but I find the more revolutions required for the grinding, the more differential effect I see on wider blades. Thus I go in the direction of starting with very coarse abrasives for geometry changes or to remove nicks, but go through them as quickly as possible.

While these steps require some thoughtful effort the first time you implement them, the quickly become part of your basic techiques and happen quickly and fluidly. I have sharpened and maintained literally hundreds of hand plane blades from a wide variety of manufacturers (not to mention chisels). I haven't found one yet that if it fit in the carriage, wasn't sharpened more quickly, and precisely with the LVPSS than any other method.

A lot has been posted on both models of the LVPSS and you can find some very good threads in the WC archives to help you get the most out of your QPSS.

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#5

Sharpening 2-5/8" Plane Blades?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Lyn,

If you have any 2-5/8" blades, what do you use to sharpen them?

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#6

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening Sy

Ben Knebel

>One thing you might look at that hasn't been mentioned. There is a slight registration edge on the iron holder that butts up against the edge of the iron--at least there is on mine.

I had exactly your problem when sharpening panel irons--turns out that the iron was just slightly larger than the nominal 2 1/2" so what was happening was that the iron sat on the registraton edge instead of against the edge on one side of the iron. Thus the iron was "higher" on one side of the holder then the other.

This then caused the iron to go out of square--rather quickly.

If that's not your problem I'm sure Rob will come up with the answer and will resolve your issues --as he always does--with alicrity and his usual superb customer service.

Regards

Ben

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#7

Re: Sharpening 2-5/8" Plane Blades?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>By hand, using the Shaptons I usually use only for backs, with either the FastTrack honing guide or one I can't talk about 'till Fall. :-)

It would be great if the LVPSS had a 10 inch platter that would handle these, but what wouldn't be so great would be the added size and expense that would go with it.

The only blades I have above 2-3/8ths are for the LN#8 and the #112 scraper planes. Given the relative use of these compared to all the others, the limited hand maintainance is no big thing

The Tormek could do some of the work, but I rarely have a perfectly flat surfaced wheel (because I use it for woodturning gouges) and so the set up would take longer than to use the Shaptons I always have out to refine the backs.

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#8

Don't you just HATE when that happens accidentally

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System

#9

Re: Problems withVeritas Mk.II Power Sharpening Sy

Rob Lee

>Hi Jim -

I'm - getting to this thread late, as I don't take my computer with me to the cottage...

Sharpening 2 1/2" blades should not be a problem. If the platter runs true, the most likely cause of the symptoms you describe is a non-aligned guide rod. The alignment procedure on page 5 of the manual discusses how to verify/adjust the alignment.

Verify also that the blade is mounted squarely in the jig - and, as has been mentioned elsewhere here, try to use both sides of the platter equally, to compensate for any wear differential.

If you want to drop me a line by email - I'd be glad to set up a support phone call from our design staff...

Cheers -

Rob Lee

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