Dating Norris Planes

Re: Dating Norris Planes

joel

>THere is no formal reference. if your plane is overstuffed it is from the first generation of post war plane. If not it's a little later. Probably 1945-1947 but as far as I know nobody hasa reliable way of telling if it's 1944, 43 or 48 or 49.

Thanks

Hank Knight

>That probably explains why I haven't been able to find any references.

Need to correct

Art Geiger

>The Norris ebonised beech line were not available in 1943, 44 or 45, and arrived in 1946 when Norris was bought out - hence the name for this line is post war Norris planes! During the war years Norris were still making dovetailed planes.

The Norris plane referred to dates between 1946 and c. 1948. The type 2 Norris planes (with bolts vertically holding the infills) came in c. 1948 and were offered right up to approx mid-fifties.

Re: Need to correct

joel

>I picked a date 45-47, you picked a date 46-48. I think then a years quibble is within a reasonable range of error.

I am not aware of any reference that definitively states when they started up after the war, and there is evidence that during the war from 43-45 they produced no planes.

THe ware ended in the summer of '45 and I don't know when they started up again.

I would be very interested in where you got your dates from and I know that information is so scarce and sometimes contredictory that it is easy for me to miss something.

THere are also some theories suggesting that it is possible that Norris made no planes after 1950 and the ones they sold after this time were made in the earlier period. Some models were avaiable if not actually still being made until 1958.

Re: Need to correct

Art Geiger

>No, your posting implied that the dating of the ebonised beech Norris A5 could be 1943-45, which is wrong. Norris were bought out by a Croydon based engneering firm in 1946. Only then did the new firm and methods mark the end of the Norris dovetailed plane and the start of the ebonised beech line with cast bodies.

At auction, a few Norris A5 planes have appeared that are dovetailed with a walnut infill AND have the lever caps evident in the post war Norris A5's. These planes are considered by dealers (e.g. Tony Murland) to be the last of the war years dovetailed Norris planes c. 1945.

Re: Need to correct

joel

>THe change to the Norris Planes & Tool Ltd happened on Jan 16 1946 but the change to Croydon happened in September 1944.

According to Charles Hayward editor of the Woodworker Norris planes were not made during the war and production resumed soon after. This is from something he wrote in 1946 (he makes no other reference to Norris that helps us at all).

THe problem is of course is that we know at least some plane production was done until 1943.

In my original post I threw in the earlier dates simply because I'm not positive and there isn't really a smoking gun of hard evidence but you are probably right.

I think however this is a problem of the same class as wondering how many angles can dance on a pin.

I am loath to accept dealers dating exactly because they aren't the ones doing research on the matter abnd their big experience comes from seeing a lot of planes.

What interests me most is how many post war planes were made?

Post war Norris a5's of differing construction are fairly common these days. Far more common than pre-war A5 or A6's. We know the Pre-war A5 was most of Norries pre-war business but are they so much rarer today than post war smoothers because so many more have been hidden in collections and by users? or the post war production while very short in years was fairly big lots, in expectation of a major revival of cabinetry after the war (which never came). and was the idea of the new owners to use the Norris name and become a much more popular and affordable tool? In other words of a big company needs a new consumer product to help it after the war and tried with planes? By the same token, the post war 17 1/2" panel plane seems to turn up quite a lot but you almost never see the longer planes. And of course a post -war shoulder plane - which should have been popular - considering the popularity of the pre-war versions, is extermely rare.

I was recently told that at the factory auction of Aeronautical and General Instruments LTd (or the successor company I don't know which) when they finished up in the late 70 or early 80's (forgot when) piles of unfinished Norris parts were found and then scraped.

How I wish some company records had survived.

Incidently the bodies of the A5 are welded, the bodies of the longer planes are steel channel.

Re: Need to correct

Art Geiger

>It's a very interesting discussion Joel. I suppose with no new evidence coming up, or likely to come up, we will never know the hard facts. I reckon the post-war A5 production was highly prolific, as they just keep coming and coming on the tool market. The price they fetch has more to do with popularity today than rarity - and they fetch quite a lot of money for a tool that is relatively common. (BTW, I can think of a few comparatively rarer Record tools that don't fetch anywhere near as much money.) I guess in the last 10 years I've seen only 6-8 22 1/2 inch Jointers and only 2 A7 shoulder planes amongst the ebonised beech line.

Incidently, would like to know who the Editor of The Woodworker was in 1940 - I have a bound volume inundated with the mysterous signatory 'The Editor' but no name. Thanks for the discussion.

Re: Need to correct

joel

>Charles Hayward took over at the start of the blitz but I don't know the name of the previous guy.

Re: Need to correct

Alice Frampton, UK

>From Charles Hayward's obituary, The Woodworker Nov-Dec 1998:

"In 1935 he moved to The Woodworker as assistant to the editor JCS Brough. On the outbreak of WW2 Brough promptly vanished to Scotland, leaving him [Hayward] in complete charge."

Cheers, Alf