Gouge question *LINK*

Re: Gouge question - SIMPLIFIED :)

Asher F.

>A simplified version of the previous posting :)

Since gouges are rated by the blade width, how would I know what to get if I needed to cut a 1/4" radius?

Thanks again,

A.

Re: Gouge question - SIMPLIFIED :)

L. Hanson - N. Idaho

>I'm not a carving tool expert by any means, but IME. there isn't really any definitive way that gouges are sized - I think you can see variations in radius between different manufacturer's gouges even when they use the same "standard". I'm not even sure they follow a definite radius, or something thats just an arc... Others may know more and help out here, as I would like to know more about it as well...

Lee Grindinger has a good web page explaining the different standards at:

http://www.furniturecarver.com/carving.html

I think the only way to be absolutely sure would be to have one in your hands to compare to the radius you want, or get one with a known smaller radius, and work it around till it fits. If you can find a catalog that has the real-size profiles of the sweeps shown, that might be your next best bet to actually having an assortment in front of you...

L. Hanson

www.norsewoodsmith.com

Re: Gouge question - SIMPLIFIED :)

Ed Mulligan, Cape Cod

>Asher -

As you note, the dimension on those gouges refers to the width. An inquiry to LV customer service should provide you with the gouge radii.

Also, check a Woodcraft catalog. They provide a chart showing the radii or sweeps for their carving gouges. Simply offer your molding up to the chart and select the best curve.

The LV (and most Woodcraft) gouges are outcannel, i.e. the bevel is on the convex surface. For best results when chopping a cope, you need an incannel gouge, bevel on the concave surface. With an incannel, the gouge can be positioned vertically but with the outcannel you'll have to tip the gouge so the cut goes straight down.

I've assembled my set of incannel gouges from eBay. IIRC Leonard Lee's book on sharpening shows how to sharpen incannels.

Another possibility is to chop close to the line with whatever's handy and then finish up with a suitable chainsaw file or sandpaper wrapped around the proper size dowel.

Ed

Re: Gouge question - SIMPLIFIED :)

joel

>Typical carving tools are sized by sweeps which have no reliable mechanical corrolation.

In the good old days there were something called "scribing gouges" which were used precisely in this situation. They were sized to specific radiuss and available in both incannel and outcannel versions.

These days they are mostly gone. You can find old patternamakers gouges which might be sized correctly or some makers have a few sizes left over although off the top of my head I don't know if the sizing is spot on.

However if you can't find the exact fit a smaller radius gouge will work, but much less convinently. In-cannel works better than out-cannel.

( Regular carving tools are all out-cannel - incannel being special order if available)

Re: Gouge question - SIMPLIFIED :)

Asher F.

>Just called Lee Valley: the set mentioned in the first posting is sweep #6. However, the CS was unable to determine the radius.

Thanks guys for the valuable info, I truly appreciate your inputs!

Asher F.

Re: Gouge question

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Asher,

If you were going into the sash business, it would make sense to own a coping plane or a scribing gouge that matches your ovolo.

Otherwise, just mark the cope before you mold that piece, cope it with a saw, clean up with any gouge small enough (if the stile is wide and thin, you'll benefit from an incannel gouge) then mold the stile and complete the joint.

Keep two things in mind:

1.) Sashes were made with ovolos. True quarter rounds were not commonly used, IMO primarily because they are so ugly. The ovolo is much more elegant and throws light differently. I have a suspicion that round coves only exist today because of shrinkage, but I could be wrong on that. Those geometric shapes are neither classical nor traditional.

No scribing chisel ever perfectly matched the ovolos profile. Any small gap would be filled with hide glue, and very likely lead based paint. I don't think you need a perfectly matching chisel. I don't think anyone ever had one.

2.) Just like any coping operation, you only are concerned about the visible surface. If the inside is all hacked up, so what?

Adam

Re: Gouge question

Asher F.

>Hi Adam,

If you were going into the sash business, it would make sense to own a coping plane or a scribing gouge that matches your ovolo.

I looked up the coping planes, but did not find much useful stuff. Will keep my eyes open for them.

The scribing gouge: unless I missunderstood, the difference between the firmer gouge and scribing gouge is that the scribing gouge ground and sharpened on the concave (inside of the curve), where the firmer gouges are sharpened on the convex (outside of the curve).

No scribing chisel ever perfectly matched the ovolos profile. Any small gap would be filled with hide glue...

How common is this practice? I always thought it's some sort fo cheating :). Secondly, since the project I am working on is cherry, wouldn't glue get more visible as wood gets darker with age?

2.) Just like any coping operation, you only are concerned about the visible surface. If the inside is all hacked up, so what?

That is correct. Thanks for posting,

A.

Re: Gouge question

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>The advantage of the coped bead is that you do not need to make it as exact as you would a mitered joint, because the stain and finish will fill it in (whether or not you are generous with the hide glue :^) and you are not looking straight down into the gap. Like Joel suggests, I use, and would recommend you look for, an old patternmaker's incannel gouge, or better yet a set of them. While not common in flea markets, except maybe in the "rust belt", they are always available at old tool sales and auctions. Buck Brothers is the most commonly encountered brand.