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DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

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DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#1

DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

David Miller from Iowa

>How do we get the word out to these wire wheel maniacs? Was out garage saleing this morning and spied from the street a card table full of planes. I�m sure we all know the anticipation of thinking you were about to score big, leaving a hastily-parked car at a trot, but imagine my dismay when I saw that the guy had wire wheeled them to death! There were 6 bench planes, the usual Bailey stuff, but also a Bower and Lyon Chaplin�s patent 7/4/76 (#4 size) � But the guy wire wheeled them all � took all the japan and gold wash off the Bower and even terribly marred the original handle! And they weren't even rusty, just had a good patina!

He was proud too � doing us all a favor by getting the coarsest wire wheel on Earth, putting it on a 5-horse electric motor and indiscriminately jamming fully assembled planes into it. He wanted $10 a piece, which I would have gladly given if they were as found, but all I got was the Bower, which I can hardly stand to look at and will probably part out.

And as long as I�m ranting, what about those people that saturate old tools with that spray lacquer? Should we buy banner space on ebay and say �DO NOT TRY TO ENHANCE THE APPEARANCE OF ANY OLD TOOL!� I need my medicine.

OK, now your turn � horror stories of do-gooder abusing perfectly good tools?

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#3

Re: Restoration work

Mike G.

>If it makes ya happy, He/She has 5 more just like it.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#4

not overly clean

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I have taken pity on you and decided to show you some pics of planes I found today that have not been overly cleaned. I believe these are commonly referred to as "barn fresh". A pretty neat auction today, and not enough good tools to draw the heavy hitters, I got most of the planes that were there, although my tool friend from hell that keeps mentioning these auctions got two of the best ones I think. These four are an early #36, a Millers Falls low angle block plane #56, Stanley #19 type 4 I think,, and a fairly recent #4 that will clean up nicely.


Below is a Union #5A, which happens to have a 2-1/4" iron so I think it's the same size as an early Stanley #5-1/2. This is my best plane for the day, must have been kept in a box somewhere with oil on it as there is very little rust. The front knob is a low mushroom version type with a nice little bead on the bottom like the very early Stanleys. The lateral adjuster is marked "pat appl for". After checking out this plane I think I might get rid of my Stanleys and start collecting Union. It cleaned up pretty with very minor scrubbing and waxing, I think I will leave the white paint spots on it.


Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#5

Why Moses?

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>What is it about the Unions that you like so much?

I have no experiance with the Unions so I am just curious.

Todd O.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#6

Re: not overly clean

Patrick Gibbons

>Those planes are not just ugly but posteriorly unattaractive. They also look to have damaged parts from rust and age. Please show us a picture of how they cleaned up. I'm really curious to see. Also how much time went into cleaning them up?

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#7

My $.02 on Union Planes

Rossmoor Galoot

>You didn't ask me but I'll give you my opinion. I like Union's for their thicker irons. They are cheaper than Stanley's to acquire since they lack equivalent collector's value but are Stanley's equivalent in performance. Good enough reasons for me.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#8

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

Ernie Miller Topeka

>You people suck! I cruse to Denver vor a vacatio and hit the mile high flea market spend two hours spend $37 and all i walk away with is a 130 block plane a Bailey #7 a disston #12 open handled pannel saw zigzag rulersome tool steel for the bro in laws lathe and a 4" shear for cutting flat steel upto 3/8" thick and carring that 50# shear was no fun. I thought I did good untill I saw Moses post.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#9

Major versus minor rust

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I am certainly not a high dollar collector; I'm what is commonly referred to as a "bottom feeder". If you look much at tools and learn to how to look at rusty tools you will soon see the difference between major and minor rust. I'll take both types if the price is right.

Jonathan Peck wrote a pretty good post about rust removal, and his process works fine; I use a similar method for minor rust removal. Minor rust has no pitting, major rust does. The Union #5A plane that you saw in the pic above was covered with sawdust and grunge, but had very little rust. I cleaned it up last night in about an hour, completely dis-assmebling, spraying with Simple Green, scrubbing with a small plastic brush similar to a toothbursh, rinsing, drying, and waxing , and will probably leave it just like it is without sharpening the blade or doing any other messing with it because I have other planes to use in it's stead. Someday when I feel like playing with it I will sharpen it up and see how it works. This plane is very similar to the Stanley version, but with minor differences. The biggest difference is the design of the lateral adjuster; the part that catches in the blade slot and moves the blade laterally is above the pivot point of the adjuster instead of underneath it. It seems to me this would be a good move. The blade is also thicker than the Stanley version, about the same thickness as the LN but I haven't measured it. And the most attractive feature I found on this plane is the fact that it cost me $10. One of the things I hadn't noticed when I bought it was the tote has a not so well repaired break in the top, but that just adds to the character. A few pics after it was cleaned.




The #4 plane I got at the same auction also has minor rusting and a lot of grunge. I sprayed the lever cap with Simple Green and scrubbed it lightly with a green scrub pad, reveals small faults in the nickle plate but a pretty good sample overall. I'm thinking of collecting one of each type of the Stanley #4 plane listed in Walter's book, which would make 20 different #4 planes. This is a version I hadn't had, so I will probably clean it up and stick it on the shelf. It will clean up nice in 1-1/2 to 2 hours. It cost me $5.

The other planes you see in the pic are not so good. I got the #19 becuase it was an early type and I am partial to block planes, and for $7 I will throw it in the electrolysis tub to remove the major rust, and will set it on a shelf and perhaps someday will need some of the parts to replace broken parts on a nicer body and cap. This plane is complete and if taken apart carefully will be perfectly functional and with a replacement Hock or similar iron would make a very nice user plane, and I'll probably have 3 hours into it. The #35 is a plane that I am particualrly partial too and also want one of each type. It will get thrown into an electrolysis tub and also rejappaned, the wood will get refinished. If this is restored right and then kept over a period of time I think it will have a lot of value to collectors in the far future. I will probably spend 8-10 hours on this plane over a period of several weeks when I start restoring it. None of the parts are broken, and the plane cost me $10. This type of bottom feeding is not for everyone (thank God for that!) but I enjoy putzing around with planes when I have the time. I bought a #606 that will be my go-to jointer plane after re-jappaning, for $65; tools are much cheaper if you don't have the best.

I also have a small collection of tools in the box, and get one whenever I can, but that is a whole different field.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#10

Re: Union planes

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>The aspect I like best about Union planes is they are well made and not overly advertised. The front knob on this sample I found is precious; I'll have to research to see if it's original. The iron is thicker, like an LN, compared to the thin Stanley's. A well made plane. Of course I am kidding about getting rid of my Stanely's, but will certainly be watching for Union's at auctions.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#11

Re: Major versus minor rust

Patrick Gibbons

>They cleaned up nicely, at least what you posted. Thanks for the details. You gave me much insight into your modus operandi.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#12

Re: Restoration work

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>The diner in Crown Point NY. has a whole collection of really nice nibbed saws, an assortment of broad axes, etc. done up the same way and proudly mounted on the walls. It ruins my appetite.

Greg

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#13

Collectables and condition

jim_reed@marietta

>I think what you say is true with most collectables. I have found the same thing with furniture--great condition=great price and poor condition=low price. Items in mint condition are scarce and are desired by collectors with $$$. If you are able to restore you can have some nice things for less money. The secret is knowing how much restoration is needed and buying accordingly. Nice looking plane.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#14

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

Brad in Ottawa

>On the weekend I saw something I had never seen before even for a woodie. I think it's pretty common for them to be overfinished to the point that the stamps are all sanded off.

This hollow and round were sanded down but the makers stamps were still intact! The real damage was that it looked like a dark red stain was put on poorly so that it was blotchy and a thick coat of varnish???

Made me cry until I found that #3 Bailey for $15 Cdn!

Brad

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#15

Re: so what do you do? *LINK*

walt quadrato

>Picked this one up over the weekend..cleaned, so far, with just a tooth brush and soapy water..dried ASAP..Don't know what else to do..Bailey Tool Co. Woonsocket RI #5 Defiance jack plane.......yeah, I know, some of you are going ..."What??". but this is really an exceptional piece of tool history. If you've gone through the Walters book and Roger Smith's 2 volume plane lore and Patricks B&G...Leonard Bailey, holder of most all innovative plane patents, was bought out by Stanley a few times. If I've got my dates straight..the first time 1869 or there abouts....he went to work for Stanley but soon quit and formed yet another plane making company. This #5 is from that company, I'm assuming..hole at top of blade..unmarked lever cap..."Defiance" on the chipbreaker. So do I clean it? Tune it? Leave it as it is? consign it to Donnelly's? One thing for sure..it's out of my bottom feeder range :-) ..though, I do love the odd worm screw depth adjustment.

apologies for the pix..took them out my window a few minutes ago..

walt


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Brass City Toolworks

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#16

Re: so what do you do?

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Out your window????It's outside and you're inside?JR

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#17

Re: Restoration work

Robert Weber

>Okay, that's not even funny...

Rob in Peoria

www.geocities.com/momentsoffaith2004

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#18

Re: so what do you do?

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>If you are re-selling it for profit, I would leave it as is; I feel this is the ethical thing to do. If it has only very minor rust (small rust spots in some areas) then I could see spot cleaning it with a fine sandpaper or steel wool to improve it's appearance and value. Another choice if you can remove the rust right without making it shiny in spots and dull in others you could do that and then be honest when you sell it; say that it has had extensive cleaning. I think the future of tool collecting depends largely on the honesty of the dealers. For me personally, if I was re-selling that plane I wouldn't clean it and would sell it as is.

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

#19

Re: DEATH TO OVERCLEANERS!

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Gee Ernie, sounds like you didn't do too awful badly to me especially in that area.

Tell us more about your vacation when you can.

Todd O.

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