planes without frog adjustment screws?

My WWII Stanley

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>4 1/2 doesn't have one, also another Stanley I have. It's just a matter of tapping it foreward with the frog screws loosened (but not too much). I use a soft face mallet to persuade it into position.

I do prefer planes with the adjuster screw.

Re: My WWII Stanley

John Horobin

>Interestingly the WWII English made Stanley's did seem to have a frog adjustments screw.

John

Some US ones....

Todd Hughes

>did to.Just like i have seen WW II planes that had hard rubber, Steel, or brass adjusting wheels I have seen them have the frog adjusting screws while some didn't. Remember too Stanley planes made befor I think 1907 didn't have them either...Todd

Re: My WWII Stanley

Wanderer

>Thanks for the reply. I assume that once you have positioned the frog you then completely tighten the two screws that hold the frog to the sole. When you have a Bailey plane can you leave the two screws slightly loose and rely upon the frog positioning screw to maintain the frog's position or is it still necessary to tighten the two screws?

Re: planes without frog adjustment screws?

Alan Hamilton

>Wanderer,

I have a "Craftsman" jack plane that belonged to my father, that has no adjustment screw. I use it only for rough dimensioning chores--it comes out after my scrub plane--so adjusting the frog is relatively less important than on a jointer, for example.

It doesn't take all that much more effort than a Bailey plane to get the frog properly set. After all, a Bailey, which has an adjustment screw, takes the same sort of painstaking to get the frog located correctly. With both types you have to go back and forth between the iron, cap iron and lever cap on, then with them removed; and this cycle may have to be repeated a few times.

But still, I would pass on a Bailey-type without a screw--unless it's a jack. No good reason though. Completely subjectively it just seems to me that those screws are indicative of a better quality plane--which may not be correct.

Alan

Re: planes without frog adjustment screws?

Wanderer

>I have a Winchester plane without the frog adjustment screw that otherwise seems to be at least the equal in quality to a "sweetheart" era Stanley Bailey that I inherited. In particular the casting is thick and the milled surfaces between the frog and the iron and the frog and the sole are ample and appear to be well machined. I've been told that I could probably sell or trade the Winchester to a collector for a few user quality Stanley Bailey planes.

Nice but not needed

Alan Bierbaum

>I have, and use, several old Stanley planes without the frog adjustment screw. It takes a few trys to get the mouth set like I want. However, in actual use, I rarely find that I need to change the mouth opening on a plane once it is set.

Tighten the frog hold-down screws . . .

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>... after adjusting or the frog will move around when you're planing.

The adjustment screw is there to adjust the mouth setting NOT to hold the frog in a particular place. There's too much play for it to serve that function.

My WWII 4 1/2 has no frog adjusting screw but it is my favorite plane. I just leave the mouth set tight and use it for final smoothing.

regards

Angus Barclay

Re: 2 types

paul womack

>There are 2 types of planes without frog adjustment. Very early ones, essentially before the idea was though of, and late ones where the omission due to cost cutting.

In general, these early Stanley are nice users.

You (probably) do not want a "cost cut" plane.

Frog adjustment is NOT neccessary (see other posts in this thread), but the presence of a frog adjuster can often be a useful proxy of build quality, in the same way that a low knob on a Stanley plane is a useful way of judging its age from 20 yards away.

BugBear

3rd Type

Todd Hughes

>are those quality planes like the Stanley Gage and Sargent Auto set planes that were designed so that they didn't have ,[or need?] adjustable frogs......How often do most wood workers adjust the frogs of thier planes once it is set anyway ?......Todd

Not needed

Robin Frierson

>For a Bailey plane, there is really only one good place for the frog to be, so it allows the blade to be supported down to the sole. Too far forward leaves a little bit of the iron unsupported, too far back and the iron will rest of the sole and lift up off the frog face.

So I suggest just setting the frog where it should be and leaving the frog ajustment screw alone. If you need more room, file the mouth, if you need less, shim the iron. The planes are cheap enough so you can have several set up like you want.

Re: 3rd Type

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>My Sargent 409C VBM (early 1900's) has no frog adjustment screw either. It works very nicely with a replacement thick iron. The origional was pitted anyway. JR

Re:After you have all the real answers hears

Ernie Miller Topeka

>My take on it all you only need to adjust the frog once get it set where you want it and leave it. sure it might take a little time set it fine or coarse how ever you need it for the job you are doing. if at some point you find that it is not set right you need another plane not the frog adjusted. Simple as that set it leave it forget about it. buy a new plane Life is good!

Re: 3rd Type

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>I guess it depends on how many you've got, and how many different jobs you want to do with a particular size of bench plane. You can tune the plane, including the blade, chip breaker and frog, for a particular operation once, and forget it, if you have another plane for a different specialized operation, or if the type of work you do or the types of wood you use are more limited. If you need to do several different operations with the same plane, then the convenience of the bedrock frog adjuster might be important enough to pay another quarter or so for it, especially if you are carrying it to your work, instead of bringing your work to the plane. My personal preference is for bevel up, adjustable mouth planes, because they are even easier to modify for a different use, or to adapt to a particular piece of wood that is causing difficulties. At the other end of the spectrum, as far as I am concerned, is a plane that needs to be coerced with a hammer. That just reinforces bad habits, like coercing failing furniture joints with a hammer and a nail :^)