Ten Plane Challenge.

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Ernie Miller Topeka

>What are we building? the list could be as simple as scrub jointer, smother, and low angle rabbiting block plane. after that adding a plow plane and some complex molding planes and Bob is your uncle. you can buils most any thing.

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

joel

>I'll bite.

30 days?

IIRC an apprentice of that time period could easily make a small desk in a day or two.

10 planes?

1860 is before stanley but I think I would only take four wooden planes:

worn out smoother to use as a scrub

Jack

Jointer or try

Smooth plane

moving filester plane

plow plane

would not bother bringing any metal planes as the wooden planes would do fine and would be lighter to carry.

All modern makers are allowed

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Paul Kierstead

>I'm assuming no power tools, not even a waterwheel driven saw.

Lets see...

Stock prep:

Scrub

Smooth

Jack

Jointer

Block

Mitre

Joinery:

Shoulder

Dado

Plough

Making it purty

Something to cut a cove...

Might swap the plough for another plane for decorative purposes. Don't really understand the 3 plane bonus....if they are all made of wood? Or only if the bonus ones??

I don't mind of all the above are made of wood.

Bonus planes:

Panel Raiser

Rabbet

Another decorative plane...maybe something to cut a radius.

Re: All modern makers are allowed

joel

>Still woouldn't change my pick of planes.

when in Rome one does as the Romans do.

Wouldn't even need 10 !

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>scrub(converted #4)

jack - #5

jointer - #7

smoother - #4 1/2

low angle block (modern Stanley mumble mumble)

moving fillester #78

plough - record clone

router #71

I already know and use all these planes. I disagree with Joel on taking woodies. I'd take the metal planes for their ease of adjustability and their "wow" factor in an 1860 shop!

regards

Angus Barclay

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I would take a spoke shave and an adze and build a chair.

My ten

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>I would bring...

scrub plane of the german horned variety

Stanley 605 flat sided jack plane of SW vintage with frog adj. screw

big ole' beech jointer

L-N #4 bronze smoother - I just really like this one

Stanley Bailey #4 type 9 luscious low knobber for rough smoothing

and trimming

L-N 60 1/2 adj mouth block plane or the 60 1/2R rabbet mouth

Stanley #78 or #289, probably the 289 for the skewed blade

Stanley #71 or old woman's tooth router

Well since I still got two more, howsabout a ovolo or cove and bead

or somethin', and a 1+1/2" shoulder plane

My bonus three woodies would be a panel raiser, a big a*s complex

moulder and a spokeshave.

I amagine that I could eek out a living with those, and who knows,

could even marry the kings daughter

Regards

Jonathan

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Greg Sloop

>Dimensioned pine for bookshelves...

Then you only need a jack. Bevel up, of course.

Ha!

Cheers,

Greg

Re: Wouldn't even need 10 !

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I agree with Angus. It took me six planes - No. 7, No. 5 for when my arms got tired, scrub, No. 78, No. 45, block - to shape the rails on my porch project recently. Adding a smoother and a router plane would probably be about enough. That's not counting a spokeshave, by the way (is that a plane or not?).

Which, of course, raises the question of why I own well over 20 planes, but let's not discuss that question, ok? They were all good deals.

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>1 Srub 2 608 3 605 4 LN 4.5 5 LN block 6 radius plane 7 rabbit plane 8 wooden cove 9 wooden tounge 10 wooden groove I would make window's and chairs.

What,no figured wood?

Bob Hackett

>Not a scraper plane in the bunch!

MB

My challenge

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Just curious,

Jonathan,

How would you plow a groove? Make a dado? OWT? S#71?

If the role of your jack plane is roughing, what possible advantage does the rare and expensive bedrock frog offer?

What does the scrub do that the jack plane can't do?

Why 2 smoothers? What is rough smoothing? (jumbo shrimp?)

I'm not picking on Jonathan. I always love these questions (What would you bring to the moon, deserted island, etc)

I am surprised that at least some of you seem to be focusing on bringing the tools for the purposes you currently have.

So I'm offering a chalenge to anyone interested in participating (we could formalize this somehow). I'll give you a rough time to beat, and you have to make something using only hand tools in that time. You could pick the project. We could try very common items, a raised panel door, a window, a chest of drawers, or the like.

When I was looking over the lists, I thought about the things I do, and what I couldn't do with the tools on your lists. If you decide to accept my challenge you may be surprised at what tools were most helpful and what tools were not.

For example: I have and don't use block planes. Don't know why. They are perfectly good tools. It may be that whatever they do, I have something else that does it better, or I don't need what they do. I use the heck out of my really beat up skew rabbets. I built a laundry room full of cabinets using (almosnot much more than) a 1/4" side bead and match planes.

So whaddya say? Any takers? I'll provide full tech support to anybody interested. Come on Hand Tool message board lurkers, lets have our own contest (its not a contest, everybody wins over here). Woodworking Unplugged 2004. Anybody?

Adam

P.S. Time is pretty short right now, but I may be able to make some presents for participants.

Raised panel challenge

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Yep, I'll be hopping right onto that one. First, I'll put the rest of the tools away that I started pulling off the wall. I'd really like to make a small cabinet to organize my braces, screwdrivers, and bits, but that won't take long and then I can get to the raised panel challenge. Then there's the small pile of hand saws and I would really like to build the galoot saw till project, but that really is a fairly simple piece and will only take about one weekend and perhaps a few evenings the following week. Then there's the couple other cabinets to organize and get rid of the excess, a good round of dusting through the whole shop and I'll be ready for that challenge. I have a rip saw ready to go, and enough jointers, all they need is a good sharpening. Now I have a decent mortice gauge, I would just need to file the tips a bit to get a nice mark on the stile and rail edges to start plowing a groove with my #50. I have a mortice chisel that would be just right, I just need to make a handle for it and sharpen it. Then I picked up a neat old Disston tenon saw, but it needs a real good cleaning, and then the teeth need to be shaped quite a bit different to make a good tenon saw, a good setting and sharpening and I can hop right onto those tenons. Now I've been eyeing that new LV medium shoulder plane and I can probably save up the money for it in the next couple years. Next would be raising the panel, which be fun and easy just as soon as I make that beautiful panel raising plane with the skewed iron and adjustable nicker. I've always wanted to make a good panel raising plane and this would be just the motivation I need. Next would be gluing, and I can get that wood threading set I've been eyeing and make some really neat clamps to squeeze that puppy together. And then I've been wanting to make one of those infill smoothers for some time as well, but I'll probably end up buying a kit to build my first one, so I may be able to have that done inside of two months. Now I've scheduled all this, and I would really like you to remind me in about 2010 or 2015 about this panel challenge; I should be done about then.

Re: My challenge

Jonathan Peck -N.Y.

>Hi Adam,

"Just curious,

Jonathan,

How would you plow a groove? Make a dado? OWT? S#71?"

I'm glad you asked. I thought about my list and had to make some choices. While I considered bringing a dado plane, I chose not to because I could make a dado, groove or a sliding dovetail without a plane. OWT? Whazzat?

"If the role of your jack plane is roughing, what possible advantage does the rare and expensive bedrock frog offer?"

My jack plane would be versatile and serve different roles. I chose the adjustable bedrock frog so I could go from medium to fine mouth without removing the blade. Why not the bedrock frog over the Bailey frog? I like both, but if choosing only one, I'll take the Bedrock.

"What does the scrub do that the jack plane can't do?"

I've never tried hogging with my jack. If having to dimension (lots of) lumber from rough stock, I'll take the narrower cambered blade and wide mouth plane w/o chipbreaker set for a rank cut. The scrub is also lighter.

"Why 2 smoothers? What is rough smoothing? (jumbo shrimp?)"

I find this size plane handy for general tasks and small work, kinda like a 9" jack plane. I keep it set between medium and fine.

"I'm not picking on Jonathan. I always love these questions (What would you bring to the moon...snip"

Uh..well..a spaceship of course..DOH!

What I didn't think about was what type of period furniture I might be making. If Victorian style, my choices could be different than if shaker or federal. I'm no expert, just curious what other would choose.

Later

Jonathan

Re: My challenge

Mike G.

>OWT? Whazzat?

Old Woman's Tooth...or Router plane. :^)

Mike G.

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Todd Stock

>I'm bringing my Swiss Army Plane...a LA jack with a few dozen blades. Don't need much to 'invent' Craftsman style furniture, right? Scrub, smooth, jack, or jointer...it's ALL good.

And maybe a few copies of turn of the century industrial patents...plus a map of major oil and gas fields in the lower 48...

It's 1860, right?

Something by Shelby Foote as well...and drawings for the AK-47 and the Browning Model 1911, along with a few samples.

Alternative history, anyone?

Re: My challenge

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Actually I make sliding dovetails and grooves/ dado's all the time without planes; I just plug in my table saw or router.

Re: Ten Plane Challenge.

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>You wouldn't want a draw knife, scorp, compass plane and travisher as well?

Greg

That could really stretch my...

Steve Kubien

>skills to the limit, but I'm in! This sounds like fun. I'm pretty happy when I can build anything without power tools (well, a pile of fluffy shavings is easy but beyond that...). I may have some time this weekend. Your challenge puts me in a frame of mind to build a raised panel door. I don't know what I'll use it for but oh well.

Are tools other than planes allowed? Chisels? Saws? A liquid refreshments? B.B. King cd?

Re: My challenge

Brad in Ottawa

>Adam,

I love a challenge... and a woodworking one at that. No p@w@r tools and a time to beat!

Besides that I have a bunch of raised panel doors that need to be made!

Brad

Re: My challenge

Dan Donaldson

>That sounds like fun. A couple of questions:

First, would the rules require starting with rough wood so that everything was by hand? Second, you said you would give a time to beat. I am assuming this time would be based on the project chosen. Is that correct? Also, I have a reasonable selection of hand tools, but do not have, for instance a plane to make tongue and grooves, or any other of the specialized ones. I am assuming that I can pick something to make that I could do with what tools I have. Is this OK?

I don't get a lot of shop time, so I would have to make something fairly small.

How would the time be established? Would we submit some kind of a rough plan? I can see large differences in times for the same "type" of project. For instance a dovetailed drawer would take longer than one just rabbetted and nailed together.

I think that this sounds like a fun thing to do, and it would also be very interesting to take pictures along the way to document the process and maybe put up a page showing the different projects and methods.

Depending on the answers, I think I would be interested in participating. I have my doubts that I could make your time due to my lack of experience trying something like this, but it would still be interesting.

Hand tool challenge

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>First off: I'm only doing this for you. Its a true challenge in the best sense of the word. You who decide to participate can guide the project as you see fit. But here's what I was thinking:

We'll start by turning the dials in the time machine back to 1780 so I can take advantage of the materials and research I have at my immediate disposal. This won't effect much in terms of woodworking but it will make the experience more historically accurate.

Projects and time limits

You will have your choice of projects from a very short list. The project can be as simple or complex as you make it. I'm thinking about practice things not full up furniture or joinery. Projects might include a small raised panel door that you can make in an afternoon, or a single drawer or dovetailed box. If you wanted to turn your door into a joined chest, that's up to you. I recommend against it. Let this be a learning experience only.

Requirements for the projects will be vague and typical of the period. No plans will be made available. No detailed instructions/techniques will be given until after the experiment is over, though I may entertain questions during.

Roughsawn lumber will not be a requirement since it is not available to everyone. I suspect you will quickly find that surfacing stock is not the greatest challenge.

A time limit will be associated with each project based on the latest research done by myself and Pat Edwards (who published his findings in the SAPFM journal and his website).

The time limit is only there to help you make choices. If there was no time limit, you could complete nearly any project with shards of broken glass for example. Its also there to force you to avoid arbitrary operations many of you feel are essential (4-squaring absolutley everything for example).

Tools

A list of tools based on documented period tool inventories will be made available. You will be allowed all of the tools on the list. Modern substitutions will be allowed in noted circumstances. Loaner tools will be made available to woodworkers based on their need and willingness to return tools quickly enough so others can take advantage of them. Any woodworker willing to drive to NJ to pick up tools (and drive back to return them) may borrow not just my spares, but items from my active kit as well.

I'll include a recommended tool list for the given projects which will be a subset of the virtual shop's inventory.

In addition to the period tool inventory, a list of banned tools will also be given. This will include all metal straight edges, calculators, dial calipers, sand paper and the like.

If we decide to go ahead with this, all of this information, plus pictures and tips, and other technical support information will appear on a webpage available only to participants (its my personal webpage that can't be found by search engines).

Sound like fun? I've been doing this for nearly 8 years now and it IS fun. Each project is a new discovery if you are willing to accept the challenge of trying it the old fashioned way. You may leave the challenge grateful for your power tools, or you may leave with a new respect for the speed and productivity of handtools and the people that developed them. The journey and your seat on the time machine awaits.

Adam

Re: Hand tool challenge ... corking the bat

Sean Evoy

>Adam and Co.,

This may be one of the most innovative ideas I have seen on this board. I think it's a great challenge and I would realy like to try my hand at it. The only problem I see is that for some (most?) of us, going as far back as 1780 precludes the use of our metal planes. Would we simply put an asterix beside our times if we had to resort to metal planes?