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Milled a Bailey *PICS*

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Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#1

Milled a Bailey *PICS*

WoodburnBob

>Back in Badger Pond days I became obsessed with the idea of getting a plane sole flat. I think I went through everything: abrasive on thick glass, MDF, jointer table, granite surface plate. You name it. Then I taught myself scrapping. I spotted and scraped for hours on end (the blue hand days). A revery, nearly like religous rapture. But this was slow business, so I switched to using various hand held grinders.

I read that some folks just took planes that were way out to a machinist. What indignity, what humiliation, I thought. If they could do it, why not me. So I watched ebay until a local mill came up and sniped it, then dismantled it to get it into the basement. Untold man hours. Each night I poored over machining books and haunted the machinist forums for tips. Eventually I put the mill back together and fiddled and farted until I got it running. Way, way down the line...this morning in fact...I finally put the mill to the test and flattened a plane sole. So I intend to inflict you with photos of the product of my ridiculous adventure.

The mill: a Tom Senior M! horizontal mill that I put a Rusnok vertical head on (but still haven't powered). I'm using the horizontal spindle today for this demonstration.


Here you see the helpless victim clamped down to the table already haven taken a pass alongside the cutter. My intention was to put a reference flat on this side of the plane.


Next, I've put the milled flat side down and use a dial indicator to align things.


Here's what you've been waiting for: the cutter softly chugging along in its first pass down the plane sole. This is an action shot and I'm surprised the camera I have could stop the action. Those really are cast iron chips in the air.


I'll spare you the details of each of four 0.002 inch passes and just show where I quit. This does reflect the pattern of how "out" the sole was. I don't care enough about that front 1/2 inch or so to sacrifice any more sole thickness.


And finally, for those of you who are wondering if this moron actually has in mind using the plane for its intended purpose, I submit the final image. Incidentally, the star of this show is a hapless wartime #3, perhaps type 17. Notice the steel adjuster. I'm guessing my past two years effort and expenditures probably increased its value from perhaps $15 to the mid-teens. But, you say, think of the joy of final mastery.


Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#2

Sweeeeet...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>I can send some planes to you, right? You need some practice on that mill, right? Huh? Huh?

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#3

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS* *LINK*

walt quadrato

>Man what a monster! I used to use one of those in my previous incarnation as a toolmaker..20 some odd years ago..think they trashed most of those in my area..or sold them to China..good to see some of the old iron still exists. Beautiful job on the sole BTW, how far out do you think it was to start? You want to go into business? I'll start sending my orphans along to you :-)

walt q


brass city toolworks

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#4

Now what you REALLY need...

Rob Lee

>... is a surface grinder to go with it!

Cheers -

Rob

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#5

Re: Schweet

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Don't know much about milling, but looks like a pretty big head on that mill; does it mill the full width of the sole in one pass? Any problems holding the plane? I'm pretty sure you could start a part time business there pretty easy ;)

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#6

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dave jeske

>So... How much did it cost to get that sole flat? And since it is now flat you have no need for that nice mill...right?

Beautiful job putting the mill together. The plane is nice too!

dave

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#7

OK.......

Todd Hughes

>so how much better does it perform then it did befor?....how much better then a pretty flat plane?....Can you look at the wood planed afterward and tell it was planed with a machined perfectly flat plane?

Does look like you had a good time though. Put me a mind of my friend Joe who wanted some business cards printed up that looked vintage.Ended up buying a couple of printing presses to do it himself including a huge 1 ton monster off Ebay that we drove up to Buffalo NY last year in a blizzard to get.Now half his barn is a printing shop......Todd

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#8

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William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>You're not supposed to show us things like that on this forum. Some of us just might be tempted to start another freefall down yet another slippery slope. I have to fight hard enough to keep away from that edge, without you setting a bad example :^)

Beautiful work on the mill, on the #3, and especially on the piece of wood. There's nothing like one success after another to keep you sliding.

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#9

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Bob that is incredible. A bunch of us had been discussing how to get the bottoms flat were thinking that you'd have to build a form to keep the bottom from flexing and the plane square. I can't believe you took that mill into the basement. If I could find one cheap enough there would be one in my basement. Great post loved it. Jim

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#10

Jim in Burlington Ont.

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Jim in Burlington Ontario

>One more thing do you think you will do a #8? curious to see how it would turn out my head's still buzzing thinking about it.

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#11

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Angelo in Cornwall, NY

>Great Job! Now what was that address I send my planes to....

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#12

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R.J.Whelan

>Bob ... nice job.

I was one of the weak-willed, lilly-livered pansies on BP who advocated having planes soles milled if they we too far out - I now feel vindicated in that someone actually did it and showed the wonderful results.

Your story does bring to mind an old "Bob and Ray" comedy routine: Ray was interviewing Bob who's hobby was restoring light bulbs; he'd spent about $50K acquiring all of the equipment, but he hadn't had to buy a new light bulb in over five years .... :-)

Thanks for the great words and pictures ... rj

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#13

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William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>I don't think I'll ever forget your old "More Than Well Done Barbequed Plane Sole" story.

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#14

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Monte Milanuk

>Now what I'm curious is how long would it take for a 'regular' machine shop to do this sort of work. I'm starting to think I'm one of those people who could screw up about any method of flattening plane soles (haven't tried the scraping yet, looks to be a lot of acquired skill there). I've tried inquiring at one of the local machine shops about this sort of thing, but I pretty much got the run-around about how it was going to take 4-6 hours (at $70+ per hour shop time) to make up jigs, get everything set up, and do the work, and check it, just to flatten the dang sole on a #5. Starts making a Lie-Nielsen look cost effective at that point! I just couldn't see it taking a decent experienced machinist (i.e. one who does that sort of work all day every day, for longer than I've been alive) anywhere near that long to set up and do the work. I don't begrudge them the hourly rate, when I heard how long they figured they'd take to do it at said rate, I pretty much figured they just didn't want to do it, which they could have just came out and said ;)

Monte

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#15

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paul womack

>Beautiful job on the sole BTW, how far out do you think it was to start?

Bob described 4 .002 passes, so I'm guessing it was 8 thou out (yech) to start with.

BugBear

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#16

Re: cheaper, quicker (less fun) way

paul womack

>Yep - I'm still plugging my "blue and file" approach.



  • Better results than (what woodworkers call) lapping.

  • At least as fast as (what woodworkers call) lapping.

  • Quicker than scraping.

  • Cheaper than buying a mill (!!!).


sole flattening technique

Now with added testimonials!

BugBear

Re: Milled a Bailey *PICS*

#17

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Dale Stansbery

>I recently had a Diesel tractor head planed with a surface grinder, and when I saw the results, a couple of my planes came to mind. But, when I inquired about having them done, I was told they're much too small and there's no way to hold them. I'm still thinking about working with them and possibly trying to build my own carrier jig that could be used. However for them to build a jig would be cost prohibitive, I'm sure.

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#18

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R.J.Whelan

>Bill ... ah, those were the days. During the move to Bishop the barbeque motor went missing - fortunately everything is flat already or I'd have to start looking for a mill. Just getting ready to move from a 600' shop into a 100' shed so the space thus saved will be very handy .. rj

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#19

I take a bow & dodge a couple tomatoes

WoodburnBob

>Your comments made my day. I'm still smiling inside. No one I interact with in daily life would give the slightest sh*t about this stuff, much less understand or value what it was about. There's just nothing like having your actions acknowledged by like-minded folk. Thanks.

Now, as we all wipe away the tears, let me speak to questions.

The mill only cost me $800. This is less than my computer/tv cable bill for a year. It'll be worth $800 next year or next decade. I'm its current caretaker. I don't think of myself as owning it really. So, what does it "cost" me to use it for a year or a decade? Somebody asked the question how much did it cost to mill the plane. Should I say nothing or $800? You get what I'm saying here. Depends on your perspective.

The process for the #3 I shaved took about 30 minutes. It was completely straightforward and effortless. Most of the time spent was picking up and putting down the camera or waiting for the mill to travel through a pass. I was very timid about feeds and speeds. Paranoid actually. No doubt a real machinist could do what I did real fast.

I spent months thinking about just the right approach to work-holding, alignment, flexing and everything under the sun. All it did was delay giving things a try. For me, the simple setup worked fine...this time. Though I was prepared to witness the setup twist under pressure or to see the plane side crack or to lament some other catastrophy. I still have my doubts about the setup over the long haul.

Doubts! My main doubt is whether the sole stays flat over night or for a week. I've had heavily worked soles open up overnight like a sunflower (asymmetrical "release of tension"). So, I'm sure not suggesting anyone do what I've done, and certainly not on a valued plane.

Useable X axis travel on this mill is about 16 inches. I won't be doing any #7s or #8s full length. BTW, I have no commercial aspirations.

Regarding Todd's bottom-line questions: Before milling, this plane simply wouldn't have worked in anyone's hands. After milling, it didn't work particularly well until I tuned the frog and blade assembly. Now it works as well as any other Bailey that's adequately tuned. Actually, I think perhaps a little better, in that the shavings are broader and more consistent from one stroke to another, and from one area of the board to another. But flatening the sole doesn't turn a Bailey into an LN. It can help renovate a crippled bedridden Bailey into one that can walk again...if one is so inclined. The board, as anyone would guess, wasn't aware of and didn't care about any of this. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It was a great pleasure to get a reaction from you, RJ. I too remember your rotisserie motor automated lapping invention and gave it a lot of thought.

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#20

Bad form...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>BTW, I have no commercial aspirations.

Dangle a carrot out in front of everyone, then - snap! - yank it away. I'm nearly reduced to tears... ;)

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#21

Me too

Dave (Arlington, VA)

>I loved that story.

For the last number of years, I've had my eyes (semi-)open for a rotisserie at the flea markets and garage sales in the area, but no luck. I guess rotisserie's have gone out of fashion.

Probably just as well. If I brought one home and set it up in my workshop, my wife'd think I'd gone nuts for sure.

All the best -

Dave

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#22

Re: Bad form...

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Scott he said commercial not doing fellow woodworkers a favor and being compensated for his time. After all he has to justify the cost of the mill right?JR(never give up hope)

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#23

Re: Bad form...

Patrick from Europe

>A true galoot would pick an iron meteorite, blacksmith it to steel, flatten it with a rock, sharpen it with tha' rock, cut with it a tree, dry it for a year, cut again a wood chunk, fit the iron and voila! a plane.

No, that should be impossible.

We stand on the shoulders of our predecessors. It is a really noble thing to salvage old machinery for the future. That's I'm doing... Really good for the soul.

Good luck for everyone who does salvage ancient western industrialia from being send elsewere (not a rant).

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#24

Re: the cost of time

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I think they may have been about right on to do a one time deal. The worst thing a business can do is underestimate the amount of time required. But once the holding fixtures are made and the procedure decided, they could do more planes in a lot less time. I think maybe the thing to do is find a local hobby machinest and talk them into doing it, or helping you do it.

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#25

OK, what was the story?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>

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