Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>Well, I trudge back to work...and in the afternoon I receive a package! ...and have my fellow employees make jokes about me.
Too bad for them they can't take the following pictures...
In this series, I show a number of pictures comparing my new Veritas bullnose and my Record 077.
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>Another image...
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>Another...
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>One more...
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>And for completeness sake... here's a picture of the manuals..
Big difference
:)
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>And finally pics of the boxes...
hehehe...
How times have changed...
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL
>Thanks for the photos, Chris.
How about some shots of them disassembled? Looking at the photos, it appears that, although they are at first glance almost the same, there are substantial differences.
Show off :-)
Dave (Arlington, VA)
>Hi Chris -
Congratulations! Great looking planes, and nice photos, too.
A couple of questions: if you already had the #77, why did you get the Veritas (not that anyone on here on WC has to "justify" a plane purchase), and the photos of the Record suggest that the toe can be removed so it also can be used as a chisel plane. From the photos that it doesn't look to me like that's true of the Veritas. Am I right or wrong?
Enjoy the planes! On what kind of a project do you anticipate first using the Veritas?
Regards -
Dave
Re: Show off :-)
William Duffield on the Cohansey
>Furgher, it appears the Record has a removable, and perhaps replacable, plate between the nose and the body, which would allow adjustments to the width of the mouth. Is that correct? Is there any play in the Record's nose mount that could possibly cause difficulties in aligning the nose with the body?
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Ernie Miller Topeka
>What a waist of cardboard? some of you people will run out of room just storing them boxes. What we realy want is side by side use test comparisons. and pictures disassimbled and box strength tests I might as well say it befor some one beats me to it You Suck!
Yes has both adj mouth and works as chisel plane
chad pearson
>I just got the veritas bullnose. The front can be removed so that the plane works as a chisel plane (secured by the knob on the top). The same sliding front is referenced by a recessed screw. This allows you to adjust the throat opening with significant precision. It is a nice piece of machining.
No affiliation... blah blah
Chad
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>hehe...
I'll see what I can come up with tonight...
Re: Show off :-)
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>A couple of questions: if you already had the #77, why did you get the Veritas (not that anyone on here on WC has to "justify" a plane purchase)
Because I wanted it...
:)
...and I wanted to support Lee Valley. Also, that was my pseudo-monthly tool purchase.
I believe William answered your question about the mouth and chisel capabilites.
Re: Show off :-)
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>Pardon me... I meant Chad answered your question.
:)
Re: Show off :-)
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>Further, it appears the Record has a removable, and perhaps replacable, plate between the nose and the body, which would allow adjustments to the width of the mouth. Is that correct?
Actually it has 2 shims that you can take out. Planecraft covers the thicknesses of the shims. I can't recall what they are off the top of my head.
Is there any play in the Record's nose mount that could possibly cause difficulties in aligning the nose with the body?
I have not seen any that would cause issues. It has a stud in the front that helps align the nose ans shims.
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Christopher Fitch @ Memphis
>woohoo! I suck! Now I know I have arrived...
:)
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Tom MacGregor
>I have to toss in my vote for a test. A pretty plane looks good on the shelf but pretty shavings are what it's all about. (Okay, okay - SOME of it's about looking good on the shelf. I probably won't be making any belts with that near mint #11 in the near future.) What, if any, are the differences in performance? Is there a reason not to look for a good deal on a used Record and put the money saved into buying more wood?
Re: A non review of the LV bullnose
Lyn J. Mangiameli
>I guess I don't worry too much about pretty shavings from a Bull nose. I settle for it being comfortable to use, precise in adjustment, capable of holding those adjustments, and being well machined (which of course contributes to decent adjustment).
The LV excells in all of those, and for most people will do so at a level not achieved by any existing bullnose plane. For me it is just a little large in my hands, with the Stanley -90 being a little closer to optimal size for my hands, but for most the LV will be an exceptionally comfortable bullnose to use. It is rounded and champhered in the right places and the forward finger groove is very nice.
No other bullnose I have encountered touches for the LV for precision of adjustment and ability to hold that adjustment. You have real lateral adjustment in the Norris style adjuster, and you have the ability to fine tune and lock that adjustment in with the lateral adjustment screws. For a plane in the rebate family this is just wonderful, as proper side adjustment is critical.
The LV has not only simple, but also precise and infinite (as opposed to stepped shim) adjustment of mouth size. This does contribute meaningfully to performance, particuarly for a low angle plane where the Type I shavings require a tight mouth to reduce tearout. Of course many times you will want a wider mouth to clear a deeper shaving in the first steps of cleaning up the end of the rebate, etc, and this can easily be achieved. The screw adjustable mouth really does aid in setting the mouth quickly, precisely, and without fear of banging into the blade edge.
Dissassembly is easy, which is appreciated on a style of plane where blade removal and replacement is often awkward if not a hassle. It can be quickly converted to use as a chisel plane, though personally, I find all bull nose planes to be poor chisel planes when compared to a real chisel plane (the small L-N chisel plane being my idea of a proper chisel plane). Frankly, I think a cranked neck chisel generally performs better for the function than a stripped down bull nose. Still, I know that a lot of people like the idea of chisel plane function from a bullnose and the LV will perform that at least as well as any other. The LV also has the advantage of a (relatively) long wearing A2 blade, but then how much of a issue is edge retention on a plane that gets so relatively little use?
The LV is a little taller than many other chisel planes (say the #90) and this is advantageous for working with deeper rebates and grooves. It does have the disadvantage of raising the center of gravity of the plane a bit, and causeing the application of force to occur higher, but I think only the most sensitive of folks will even notice this.
My only disappointment with this plane is a dissapointment I have with respect to all bullnose planes I have seen or used, and that is that the forward sole is to thick. Obviously you want to get that bullnose to take shavings as close to the stop as possible. The more forward sole, the more area you have to use yet a third tool to complete the clean up (i.e, first the rebate plane, then the bullnose to get closer to the stop, then finally the chisel plane or cranked neck chisel to get to up the the stop itself--what a hassle-with each performing a little differently and having the potential for different alignment). So I wish all bullnose planes brought me as close to the stop as possible. I think the LV plane could have been made with a shorter front sole (and still had adequate strength--even if they had to go to a steel plate here), and told them so, but obviously they continued to feel otherwise.
Speaking of which, because I had more early input on this plane than most, I haven't done a review of it as is usually my custom. As can be seen from these comments, I still feel quite comfortable both singing its praises and yet taking it to task for things I feel are lacking, but still, given my early involvement, I felt a formal review would could not avoid the appearance of bias. So take the above as just my personally ramblings on my sense of the plane. It has become my bullnose of choice.
Re: A non review of the LV bullnose
AD
>Lyn,
I agree with your comments on size here. Last year I purchased a Stanley 90 and found it too small for my hands( my hands are large but not huge). A friend suggested the Record 077A which I subsequently purchased and found it still a bit small in the hand but a nice plane otherwise. Got the LV a couple of weeks ago and it feels just about right for me. Lovely piece of engineering and overall finish.
Performance wise, I would rate the three as LV #1, Record #2 and Stanley last. To be fair, the Stanley was a new one and not an older model but I was pretty dissapointed in it - it will be gone soon. I wanted to keep the three for a quick comparison and then decide which one to keep.
It looks like the LV with the nose removed could be the base for a larger shoulder plane?? Rob may be able to confirm this.
regards,
AD
Thanks Chad and Christopher.
Dave (Arlington, VA)
>
Nope...
Rob Lee
>... not wide enough, nor long enough.
...think 1 1/4" by 8 1/4"....
Cheers -
Rob
Re: Nope...
Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia
>OOOOh. I can't wait to see the innovations you can add to this size shoulder plane!JR
Re: jack of all trades
paul womack
>It looks like the LV with the nose removed could be the base for a larger shoulder plane?
Or a potential LV #311...
BugBear
Re: Post-Holiday Plane comparison
Todd Hughes
>How old is the Record 077 ? I saw one the other day in an anitique store, looked like a nice plane and was priced at $75 which I didn't know was a good price or not so I didn't buy it. Wasn't quite sure of it's vintage but I did think it was an attractive plane , sort of reminded me of some nice Prestons I once had....Now the Veritas,, uhmm, I guess from all reports they work well enough but as my Grandmother would say, 'Thats so ugly I would have to take it to the Dump after Dark". Would it have been really that hard to make it look a little bit nicer and finish it better I wonder?.....Todd
We can...
Rob Lee
>... paint yours any color you like... :)
Cheers -
Rob