Burnishers and the quality of modern tools

Getting to the heart of things

Bob Hackett

>If I may point out something.Even more than just buying from competent suppliers,it`s important to fully understand the process you are about to undertake.

In order to make informed decisions in regards to purchasing and maintaining tools we need to have a proper understanding of what we are trying to accomplish and what the requirements are to get there.Your experience told you that the burnisher was far too rough to turn a proper burr.I`ll now ask you if you took the time to explain why this burnisher didn`t work(I`m sure you did).Even more important than just pointing out that the burnisher was substandard,did you explain and perhaps demonstrate that the burnisher could be made to work simply by polishing it?If you did then you just took that extra step needed toward leading that new WWer toward understanding this process.

IMO the answer too many times is to just go and get another tool.Sometimes all that is required to avoid both frustration and extra expense is to begin with the basic understanding of what the job requires.If everyone took the time to research the requirements the supplier selling those substandard burnishers would not be carrying them for long.

Mainely,Bob

Sounds like a good article

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I think a great number of us at some point knew next to nothing and have some junk hiding in our tool boxes. Those cheap socket set's we all bought that were sloppy and broke. It would have been really nice to have someone explain to me why I should pay extra for premium tools and know where the law of diminishing returns was. I have quite a few hand scrapers and could have avoided buying so many bad ones instead of a few Bahco formerly Sandvik scrapers for the superior performance. Even knowing better there is probably a few hundred dollars worth of e-bay bad buys. I'm sure there is no one out there that hasn't bought some junk along the way.

Burnishers...

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>In this case, polishing it may not have been enough to make it work right. If the burnisher is not hard enough, good scraper steel will just score it, instead of turning a proper hook. Of course there may be a secondary issue at work here as well: All scrapers are not created equal, either. A soft burnisher might just work fine on a soft, substandard scraper, but you'll spend a lot more time than you should honing and burnishing, leaving a lot less time for scraping. Maybe she got the scrapers the same place as the burnisher? As Jim notes, Sandvik scrapers hold their edges well, as do Lie-Nielsens.

Re: Getting to the heart of things

Christopher Schwarz

>You shouldn't have to sand and polish a burnisher. That's like me selling a magazine that comes unbound, with the pages out of order and written in lemon juice -- just add staples, a bright light and several hours of effort.

So I'm not going to waste an hour on a tool like that, only to discover its other flaws (such as its Rockwell hardness). It went in the garbage.

If I buy something at a yard sale for a quarter I'll put some time into fixing it. But when you pay full retail, you should get a tool that works, or a vendor with an honorable return policy.

I agree completely with your point about getting educated before buying. But when I teach beginners there is simply a staggering amount of knowledge to convey in woodworking. You'd be surprised by how much information we've all absorbed.

Sometimes we're going to buy something that isn't quite right for the job because of our lack of knowledge about the tool category (such as the Stanley bullnose plane). So you need something else that we can all easily judge: manufacturers who make tools that work at the basline level and sellers who stand behind them.

Good points Bob.

Chris

Teachers

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>This is the worst result of capitalism; setting aside integrity for the almighty dollar. The only justice is that if the system works right, a company that makes sub-standard tools or tools that don't work is eventually out of business. Unfortunately they are usually not out of business before the management has stuffed their bank accounts with millions.

Consider Stanley tools; walking through a large box store and looking at all the disposable tools Stanley makes is a little sad for me. They still make some good tools, but the majority is built overseas at an incredibly low cost; and their gross sales are probably in the millions of dollars per day.

I have found that their simply is no substitute for a good teacher. We were raised pretty poor, a family of eight children, and when my parents got married they lived in a small shed that literally had a dirt floor. They worked hard and eventually had more leisure time and more money than their parents had; I've worked hard and have more leisure time and more money than my dad does. My dad never spent the time and money to really dig into and learn the finer details of woodworking; he built stuff, and as a young boy I helped and I realize I learned quite a bit from him, and he taught me everything he knew (with a good cuff upside the head when I didn't do it right), but I realize now how little he knew. With my leisure time and a little bit of money, I enjoy using and learning about power tools, hand tools, and wood working. But I never had anyone to stand beside me and show me how to sharpen a scraper; I learned it out of magazines and woodworking articles, and probably still am not getting the best edge on my scrapers. There is simply no substitute for a good teacher, someone who can look at what you are doing and tell you how to do it better. I think with the time and money that we have nowadays, we can learn more about tools than our parents did, and pass that on to our children and friends.

The heart of things(long reply)

Bob Hackett

>Maybe I`m reaching too far on this but when you do things like toss that burnisher you miss the point.Because you don`t take the time to return it,with an explanation of why it`s being returned,The vendor keeps stocking them and more of these will be sold.If it`s important enough to rant about it here why isn`t it important enough to do what you can on a personal level to set the whole situation as right as you can make it?

The manufacturer may even be ignorant of the problem,The vendor surely is.What did you do to remedy that ignorance when you tossed that tool?The message the manufacturer gets is,"it didn`t come back so it must be OK".You`re only using half of the system and yet complaining that it doesn`t work.

We all can give feedback with our purchasing power,I get e-mails every day urging me to use this power to drive gas prices back down.What most of us miss is that a face to face type of feedback with the manager of the store where we bought the defective goods can be even more effective.It takes his time and inconveniences him.He has extra paperwork,a refund to process,at the very least restocking time(you didn`t get through to him so he put it back on the shelf).These are all things he may remember when it comes time to reorder.

By tossing it you`ve effectively said two things 1-I make enough to throw money away(how much did that burnisher cost you?If you had bought a box of 10,would you throw all 10 away?),2-It doesn`t mean enough to me to get personally involved to set things right.Right not only for yourself but for the rest of us too .

You can`t carry much sympathy about being bitten repeatedly when you refuse to spend any time training(as in educating)or maintaining the system.

If I`m sounding harsh here I really don`t mean to be.It`s posts like this and the Stanley bullnose plane post that keep me shaking my head and saying to myself"the reason they keep making these substandard items is because we keep buying them".More importantly,once we find out they will not do what is expected,we are too lazy to take them back and explain why they will never work correctly.

Instead of pointing the finger at the manufacturer,we need to start far closer to home.Thanks for staying with this rant to this point.

Mainely,Bob

Thank you,Moses.

Bob Hackett

>That`s the best way IMHO.Slow down,show them how you approach it,then talk about why.

One of the most rewarding things about WWing is when someone I helped along as a newbe comes back to repay me by sharing a new and better approach they`ve discovered.It lets me know I`ve succeeded on more than one level.I get to share thier enthusiasm for the craft.I get to learn something useful and new to me that helps me improve my work.Most importantly,it`s an affirmation that I`ve communicated the importance of sharing knowledge and skill.It doesn`t get any better than that.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Burnishers and the quality of modern tools

Derek

>I bought a commercial (name brand, German made) burnisher before I knew what I was doing. I tried to make my scrapers work and had a very hard time. At some point I either read or realized that the burnisher was not smooth and polished it.

That made a world of difference! My scrapers became usable then!!!

Wait a minute! Pretty darn long rant

Derek

>This is NOT a result of capitalism. It is a result of ignorance and greed which are part of human nature around the world and in all societies - especially Communism and socialist ones.

The quality of goods in communist and socialist societies is much poorer, in general, than in capitalist ones and people have no recourse or choice. The exceptions to this rule have been driven by capitalism which has been allowed to enter them (China).

The lack of knowledge, training and understanding in the buying public has resulted in this particular problem. The problem is that hand tools and their proper utilzation have become almost a lost art in our society - thankfully they are making a come-back.

Companies like Lee Valley and Lie-Neilsen are making quality products at prices which allow them a reasonable return on investment BECAUSE there is now a market for them. People are willing to pay what it takes to make and market the products. People who complain that the prices are not in line with the poorer quality Stanely or Record products are wrong to do so. Also, those who complain that the prices are not in line with the used Stanley stuff also miss the point - though each individual needs to consider his/her options and choices in the marketplace and make the choice which they feel is best for them.

Re: Burnishers and the quality of modern tools

Todd Hughes

>I used to use scrapers alot, hand held ones as well as ones mounted in wood handles. I often used a small sharpening steel that had very fine horizontal lines in it for a burnisher to turn the edge.Have been told this prevents it from working well, luckly I never knew any better to know it wouldn't work.Often being to lazy to look for my sharpening steel burnisher I would use the back of a handy chisel or even the tang of a file.Always worked fine.....Have to admit not spending much time thinking about it though.....Todd

Re: Burnishers and the quality of modern tools

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Perhaps your success was due to the fact that the striations were longitudinal, rather than circumferential.

More on the dang burnisher

Christopher Schwarz

>Bob,

I pitched the burnisher because a fellow newbie woodworker bought it at a woodworking show, didn't remember the vendor's name and there's no maker's mark on the tool (see my original message).

If I didn't pitch the burnisher, other newbies in our shop would use it, suffer endlessly and probably give up scraping. Believe me, if I knew the name of the vendor or maker, their ear would ache right now from my abuse. So the most I can do is warn people right now that there's a bad batch out there.

I'm not shy about griping. The only message I wanted to send was, "I don't want crap in our shop."

Chris

Message received...

Bob Hackett

>and understood.As you can see,I`m not shy about griping either.

MB