Bench vise design

Re: Bench vise design

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>In this picture we see a feature few vises can emmulate. The jaw is completely loose on the screws. Clamping irregular stock (in this case an ash hammer handle) requires no special effort. I�m not sure exactly how this compares to the LV vise. Maybe someone can enlighten us.

Racking is good side to side, but bad top to bottom. LV's design appears to miss this.

I'm not trying to be competitive. Design is what I do for a living. I approach it emotionlessly. Regardless of which design you prefer, I hope this thread has raised our awareness about jaw racking and the compexity of bench vises. I hope also bench builders at least familiarize themselves with past solutions to these problems.

Respectfully,

Adam Cherubini

Re: Bench vise design

paul womack

>I'm trying to work out how the loose jawed, large screw headed, twin screw vice would be used when edge jointing a 6 foot long, 6" wide, 1/2" thick plank?

BugBear

Re: Bench vise design

Joe Rogers,Northern Virginia

>Do you use any garters to assist the opening process to keep the outer jaw against the screw heads Adam? I can forsee some frustration if the jaw needs to be manually reracted every time it is opened.JR

Re: Bench vise design

Alice Frampton, UK

>Adam,

From the blurb on L-V's website:

Even better, a spring-loaded lock pin lets you disengage the chain for controlled jaw skewing needed to equalize pressure on slightly out-of-square work.

Which I think is the question you were asking, but forgive me if I misunderstood. I think your vice looks nicer though. :~) (Sorry, Rob)

Cheers, Alf

Re: Bench vise design

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bug,

There are a couple options. You could clamp to the outside of the vise as Wiley suggested, though my vise will rack side to side under those conditions. You could shim the other side, though I prefer not to. For edge jointing, clamping there isn't necessary, a peg to take the vertical load is. The racked vise jaw becomes functionally identical to, and stronger than, the traditional "crochet" found on 17th and early 18th century benches (see diderot, Workbench book's Roubo bench). I know no french, but I think "crochet" means "hook". Anyone?

Often when I joint stock, I remove this vise entirely, and use one of the screws in my leg vise. Its a one minute swap. But even if t were harder, I'm not sure it would be an issue. I find I begin a project with the leg vise and end it with the twin screw. I do very little swapping. When you think about traditional cabinety, you begin with large boards and they get progressively smaller as you work!

Essentially, though not as pretty, my bench is set up identical to the one on the cover of the workbench book, which is essentially a variation on the famous 18th century Dominy bench, now in Winterthur.

There's no reason why this vise is in the location its in. Traditionally, we see twin screw vises in various locations along the front edge of the bench. That's probably worth some consideration for new bench builders.

Best!

Adam

No

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Joe,

I don't use garters. Retracting the jaw is nothing at all. The holes are probably 1/4" bigger than the screws, so the jaw slides easily. But there's another trick I haven't mentioned.

The nuts sit back from the front edge of the bench several inches for strength reasons. (Vises like these and that includes the LV could tear a bench apart if you aren't careful.) So I saw no reason to thread the section of screw that could never possibly engage the nuts. As a result, my work never contacts the screw threads. The jaw slides easily across the smooth unthreaded screw shafts.

Adam

Re: Bench vise design

joel

>I don't have a double screw vice on by bench. I have a regular Record and a euopean tail vise.

(left handed like me).

The record is installed with the rear jaw embedded in the bode of the bench so the front of the bench is one giant clamping surface.

For face clamping wood for dovetailing one side gets clmaped in the record. The order side gets clamped against the front apron of the bench with a smapp C clamp or bar clamp -depending on which is closer at hand.

Any width wood can be accomodated.

for edge planing Long boards are clamped the same way.

Irregular work is clmaped the same way - no issues or racking, uneven pressure or anything like that.

A real tail vise has three advantages:

the clamping pressure is in the front of the bench where you need it most of the time.

except for very long boards the dogs that hold the wood are usually in the first slot in the vise so I'm clamping in the middle of my bench not at an end and the wood is supported from end to end.

the gap that the tail vice leaves when open is perfect for holding chair legs and other long items with no interference, tons of pressure, and no racking.

In general I use my vices very little. Most of the work I do is against stops or one sort or another. I end up using my tail vice more than my face vice simply because most of the time I am milling stock

Re: Bench vise design

Mitch

>Regarding the position of the twin screw vise along the front of the bench, I've always wondered why they seem to be most frequently on the left side of the bench (where you often see face vises). It would seem to me that if you have a long board on edge for edge jointing clamped in the twin vise, it would make more sense to have this on the right side of the bench so that the whole length of the bench would absorb and resist the motion of planing. If you have the board clamped on the left side of the bench, you don't have very much of the bulk of the bench to work against. This is a major consideration for me because my bench isn't going to be very large at all because of space limitations. I don't want to be planing and have the bench tip.

I guess the obvious reason twin vises aren't on the right side is that they would interfere with an end vise, if there is one. Is there a way to have the best of several worlds -- having an end vise AND a right-side-located twin vise? Or, would it just be better to have an end vise that has a horizontal dog or hook that would hold the board on edge against a corresponding hook at the left of the bench? Easy questions! :)

Rack-less Leg Vise Revealed

John Truxell-Svenson (jvs)

>Well, not really rackless in all operations, but you can get around most of them.

The below is from a sketch I made while planning my current stock prep bench. Pretty close to what the final dimensions are, and plenty close enough for illustration.

The "leg" part is just over 7" wide, and covers a little over 8 1/2" of bench when angled. This gives a little over 9" from the top left tip of the leg to where the screw goes through (there is ~13" clearance over the screw to the top of the bench). I use scraps for parallel bracing, so there is zero racking and full support for drawer sides up to 9" wide when clamped vertically. I use scrap stock that is fairly close to the thickness of what I am clamping, but even a 1/2" difference is less than a degree at the other end; more than close enough for solid holding.

There is a normal vertical vise at the other end, with ~14" clearance over the screw to the top of the bench (closer to the top of the leg for leverage was the idea, but there is plenty of pressure available with a ~20" handle, so if this bench ever wears out, I would probably position the screw closer to the middle). A moving board jack holds the other end up for short boards--long ones can be clamped at both ends.

Between the two, I can do about anything without having to worry about racking. The relatively fewer times that I edge joint pieces more than 16-18" wide, I can either just take another piece of scrap and put it on the other side of the vertical leg's screw, or lay it on the bench and shoot the joint. You don't need a huge amount of force to hold wide vertical boards in place, and I have also just skipped the scrap on the other side--the small amount of racking doesn't interfere with anything for lighter (<6/4 thick) assemblies.

Not sure if this clarifies anything for anyone, but I have the bench sitting in my shop, and was starting to get confused reading through this thread. Still haven't heard a good reason anyone *needs* a tail vise to begin with, but that question can wait for a slow(er) day...  : )




/jvs

? for Adam and Paul

Andrew F in Australia

>I just put the board edge-on in my vice at home (26" between screw centres - 4' board) and plane away.

The vice/bench I knocked together has 2" or thereabouts drop between the top of the bench and the top of the screw.

Handles are approx 2 1/2" dia.

To deal with racking, I chock out the bottom of the vice if I really need to (usually only on small cross section, as the top of the handle is only 1/2" or so below the top of the vice jaw)

Oops - the question(s)

Andrew F in Australia

>Generally I find that the vice jaw holds the board still - there is 4' of friction as well as the pressure.

Paul - was your question: Does the board fit in the vice edge-on?

Adam - do you find that the board stays in the vice well enough if you drop it in edge-on and clamp it lightly?

Cheers,

Andrew

Veritas Marking Gauge & bench screw issue

HC Sakman

>Sorry guys... I am little behind here...

Veritas Marking Gauge w/ Micro-Adj. is not really necessary. The original version (and the M-Adj.) have that rubber (I assume) O-ring in between the brass face and aluminium face of the head, which prevents the rod sliding all over the place when the thumbscrew is loosened for re-positioning the head. That O-ring is the key element in this tool. In both versions, one can hold the rod in palm and micro adjust the head by simply sliding the head using thumb and/or index finger (If you still have them;-). Therefore, micro-adj. addition to this tool improved nothing much. Recessed cutter area in the head and flush-mount screw to secure the cutter are the real improvements. This way, it functions brilliantly as a depth gauge and taking precise measurements of tenon sholders and cheeks.

In my bench, I have a maple jaw that is 20" long, 4" high and 2-3/8" thick. Screw is from LV tail vise screw and the bards are solid steel 1-1/4" in diameter. It does rack ever so slightly, especially when tightened to the max but then that's why it can hold anything, anywhere, unless it is tapered more than 2~3 degrees or so.

Chico...

Re: Bench vise design

paul womack

>Thank for the thoughtful responce; I guess there's no "universal" vice solution.

I have a couple of work holding suggestions on my website. One I don't have (but should add - memo to self) is the use of a simple "rocker" in a parallel jawed vice to assist the holding of non rectilinear objects. The emulates the tilting jaw insert of an Emmert.

I commonly use it in conjunction with this technique.

One (slightly tangential) point.

...my bench is set up identical to the one on the cover of the workbench book.

I think there must be multiple editions; my copy has the Hancock bench on the (front) cover.

BugBear

Re: the dominance off twin screw vices

paul womack

>Of course, I suspect there are more workbenches with twin vices than any other kind out there - if you count work mutts as benches...

BugBear

Re: Bingo

Jeremy Osner

>Oh yeah, the Pennsbury shop! I gotta get down there some time this summer! It's the first Sunday of the month right? I guess that rules out July (the 4th) -- so maybe I'll come down in August.