Cutting the waste on dovetails (long & pedantic! )

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails

Alice Frampton, UK

>Derek,

I can't be certain, but I had a feeling Rob twisted the blade with a pair of pliers maybe? Anyway, it's a recognised solution to the problem amongst scrollsaw users IIRC.

A solution to the initial problem of a thin kerf is to saw the waste out by going down the middle and turning out towards the corners. Yes, it requires two actions, but on the other hand you don't risk making a mess of the corners as you make the turn. I did try a jeweller's/piercing saw for a while, but went back to a coping saw again - I just found it a bit quicker.

Cheers, Alf

P.S. There now follows an unashamed, in your face, in no way stealthy, gloat. Hands down the best hand cut dovetails I've ever managed. Humour me; everybody else I know has had to... :~)

In oak, very impressive

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>My experience with oak is that it is very unforgiving. Sharp tools and a steady hand are the minimum, and I suspect the right karma is needed as well.

I'll bet none of the numerous videos and book illustrations on dovetailing have oak specimens. Can anyone prove me wrong?

Greg

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails

paul womack

>A solution to the initial problem of a thin kerf is to saw the waste out by going down the middle and turning out towards the corners.

As almost illustrated here

The picture shows the saw starting in the DT kerf, whereas the proper technique (as described by Alice, she of the nice hand cut dovetails) is to start in the waste.

This technique allows the use of a coarse toothed (therefore fast cutting) saw, even when you're using ultra narrow kerf DT saws.

BugBeasr

simple solution to your problem

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I have used jewlers saw for the reasons you describe-thin blade. After mounting, grab the blade with pliers near the ends and twist it about 30 degrees. Now the frame sits at 30 degrees to the end of the board and the blade is parallel to the cut to be made.

However, these blades have very fine teeth and they cut slow. I found it faster to just chop them out with the chisel.

Modified chisel???

Brian Gray in Sandusky, OH

>I use the scroll saw with a #2/0 - .010"thick - 26 to 30 tpi skip tooth German scroll saw blade. They are really used mostly for marquetry....VERY tiny blade.

However, it sounds like you are interested in hand-tools.

You could mount those blades in a jeweler's saw...I've done that....or modify a chisel...

I used to use a chisel that was sharpened to about a 15 or so degree bevel. (use a beater piece of junk chisel, cause it'll lose it's edge quickly.)

You can use this chisel to quickly chop through the waste from both sides...you'd be surprised how deep this modified chisel will reach.

Then cut the final chops with your standard chisel.

Chop

David Linnabary

>During the time I was first teaching myself dovetails, I was taking a finish course up at Covover Workshops and someone asked Ernie to demo emperical half blind dovies over our lunch break.

What I came away with was that I was being way too fussy about chopping out the waste, taking nice little chunks out at a time. Ernie focused on getting the first baseline cut and then he struck the baseline cuts really hard and worked quickly, not even flipping the chisel over as he made the cut to lift the chip. I'll never again consider sawing a baseline unless I'm working extremely thick stock.

Also I used to chop with the end grain facing me, Ernie turns the piece 90 degrees butts it up against a bench dog and quick clamps it down. I find this a great deal more comfortable way to work and I can see the baseline easier.

David

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails (long & pedanti

Steve Kubien

>In his first DT video, Rob Cosman uses a pair of diagonal cutters (wire cutters, if you prefer) to twist the blade in his fret saw. Put the cutter right down close to the ends. Don't squeeze very hard and give a nice gentle twist. Works well for me and I use a pretty jewellers saw.

But then again, my DT's aren't nearly as nice as Alf's!

Steve Kubien

Ajax, Ontario

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Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails (long & pedanti

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Did you buy the saw just like Rob Cosman's that has a wing nut on the end so you can really tighten up the bade? If you did he bends the blade as Bill says about 30 degree's. The trick is the saw needs to be moving as you try and change angles. So start cutting and turning the saw at the same time. It takes more than a few times to get the flow of it but once you get the rythm it will be much quicker.

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails

Paul Barnard

>Hey Alf,

I'm moving back to rainy old blighty in a few weeks time. I'm going to be living near Chippenham but will doubtless get down Cornwall way at some point. I'm going to be living the batcholer life for a few months until the family move over so I will have more time to devote to woodworking but alas no workshop or tools. Guess I'll have to settle for talking about it a lot more :-)

Roll your own

Paul Barnard

>I made my own saw. It's simple a scalled down bowsaw scalled to fit the fretsaw blade with a throut deep enough for the cuts I make. It didn't cost anything and you can size it to suit. One other very usefull aspect is the abilty to tension the blade which makes for a much faster and acurate cut. I normally cut the waste right above the line to leave a handpowered paring cut with the chisel to clean up.

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails (long & pedanti

Sgian Dubh

>Derek, anathema to hand woodworking purists I know, but a router, a small cutter, and a side fence knocks out the bulk of the waste in a big hurry. Just leaves a bit of trimming.

If that technique's too noisy and modern, a chisel or two, and a swift whack from a heavy mallet clears the waste between tails or pins in about five seconds each. Most people are way too pernickety when it comes to dovetailing. Slainte.

I too have had problems

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>With fret or jewlers saws. I use an old MF coping saw with a 12 TPI blade works great. I use a wester DT saw so no kerf problems her. With a Japanese saw, as stated start in the middle of the waist and saw to the corners. I've always saw out my waste and find it faster the chopping.

The joint is most beautiful!

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>And so is the wood. Is that English oak, Quercus robur? It is most striking. And are there different English oaks--I have heard of English brown oak? Please expound.

Fabulous handwork on the joinery.

Wiley

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails

Alice Frampton, UK

>Paul,

Rainy?! Hah! Blazing sun in these parts for a week; didn't even rain on the first Test at Lords which is practically unheard of. Better bring your sunblock :~) Give me a ping if you're coming down this way.

Cheers, Alf

Thank you, Wiley...

Alice Frampton, UK

>...and everyone else too. Nothing like fishing for compliments and landing a few :~) Although if truth be told, I think the camera has done me a few favours here and there.

I'm not sure I'm the person the expound on oak, but you're correct, it is Quercus robur. IIRC, it was from a piece I bought a while back, air dried, from an estate sawmill here in Cornwall. Unfortunately they've given up everything but turning and carving blanks now, so no more sawn boards. For the absolute definite guide to everything you could ever want to know about the English oak, I can recommend "Oak, a British History". If only I could find my copy, I could pretend to know it all! I think Brown oak is a result of a bracket fungus, but I'm sure someone else will know more than I.

Cheers, Alf

Re: Cutting the waste on dovetails

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Alf

That's most impressive for a first attempt :)

I aspire to cut dovetails like those!

Thanks for the help.

Regards from Perth

Derek