bow saw blade?

Re: bow saw blade?

deanj

>Woodcraft.com carries bow (Frame) saw blades. It depends what you want, they have 27" blades.

I for one just discovered how nice a bow saw is, I have the one frmo Woodcraft with the 5 point blade. I really want a 20-24 inch saw now for cutting tenons, etc. The 27" is kinda big for that, but can rip and crosscut with amazing speed. So fast that I smashed my fingers the first time, figured it was going to take as many strokes as my panel saw did to cut that 8/4 cherry... Nope... Ouch.

Note, you'll need to take a lot of set out of the balde if you buy it from woodcraft. They are way overset for my taste, but your tastes my vary.

-Dean

Re: bow saw blade? *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I bought an extra blade or two from Highland Hardware, would also look to Woodcraft, and LV. There are also some Japanese blades made for framesaws that look interesting. Dieter sells these; but the exchange rate is a bit disadvantageous right now.

BTW, many people who make frame saws also make the blades from wrecked bandsaw blades.

Pam


Highland Hardware

Re: bow saw blade?

deanj

>I have a hard time finding 1.5" wide band saw blades. :-)

But I agree, for curve cutting a BS blade can work.

-Dean

Re: bow saw blade?

Brad in Ottawa

>I don't used wrecked bandsaw blades... I buy'em new, I wreck'em, then use'em.

Looking at all my options when I made a framesaw and bowsaw and decided it was the best option. It let me choose the blade length I wanted and the tooth configuration that works best for me and the application at hand.

Sometimes you have to correct the set a little so the saw tracks straight.

Brad

Re: bow saw blade?

sweetchuck

>Any advice on how I should attach the blade? I guess if I use an old bandsaw blade I can just drill a couple of holes in it and use pins. I do not have a lathe so I can't turn any handles, do you really use the handles when sawing or just hold the frame? Any other info? I am new to all this. Thanks

Re: bow saw blade?

deanj

>My advice -- Get the frame saw woodcraft has. It's about 30 bucks, use it, figure out if you like that type of saw. If you do, use the handles and blade holders to make your own with the woods and shape you want. A frame saw is a pretty simple tool, so play with one then invest the time in making one after you know what you want to change.

Cheers!

Dean

Re: bow saw blade?

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Sweetchuck,

You can get some nice boxwood London-pattern handles from Lee Valley:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=30020&category=1,41504&ccurrency=1&SID=

Just make a right-angle jig for you drill press to drill a stright hole, insert some 1/4 brass rod with epoxy (into which you've drilled a perpendicular hole for a brad to hold the blade and sawn a kerf with a hacksaw).

If you have trouble drilling a hole into the bandsaw blades you can soften up the end with a torch before drilling.

Hope that's clear,

Frank

Re: bow saw blade?

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>For handles, you can go to IKEA and buy a rolling pin. Or, just shape square stock with drawknife, spokeshave, rasp and file, or whateever tools you feel comfortable with, until it fits your hand. Bob Smalser posted a very useful article or two, with photos, on hand shaping round handles for several different tools. Search the old posts for his name.

If you use bandsaw blades, consider that you could effectively get two saws for the cost of two, different length, beams.

The narrower the blade, the smaller radius curve you can cut. Also, of two blades the same width, the one with the greater set will cut the smaller radius.

To put holes in bandsaw blades, and other saw blades, without torching them, I use a pin punch. Again, try the search function for more info.

No drill...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Their hardened steel. You'll never drill thru it. Look in the archives somewhere it talks about holes in bandsaw blades with a punch I beleive.

I haven't tried this

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>but it's possible to buy file handles that have a threaded insert integrated with a ferrule, in common thread pitches. Common, at least, for the U.S. and its imperial/footandinches dimensions. Don't know if they're available in metric sizes elsewhere. But I'm starting to wander at the end of a long day.

Anyhow, it has occurred to me that buying a suitable bolt, threading it into the file handle with some threadlocking compound or epoxy, and then cutting off the bolt head would be a supremely simple way to get a sturdy bow saw handle.

I use one of these file handles with a 3/8"-24 insert, into which I've mounted keyed chuck from a dead electron-burning drill. It would serve as a pin chuck if I didn't already have a pin chuck; mostly it holds a countersink for those times I have to countersink one hole in softwood and need something I can grab quicklike.

Re: No drill...

Dennis

>Well you can drill it, just heat it first where you want the hole but pin punch works quicker imo.

Bandsaw blades work fine, just find local guy that makes them to order and they will have all the size and types you want to try. As far as making the saw, you can make simple one or just as fancy as you like. Lots of info here if you do a search on this subject.

For what its worth, bow and frame saws work for me,they are the the way to go.

Dennis

remove nospam for email

Re: No drill...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I had no problem drilling through a 1/4 blade I bought new.It was an inexpensive blade but works great in my bowsaw for curved cuts. Maybe only the teeth are hardened?---Jack

Re: bow saw blade?

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Who needs a lathe? Why not just flatten all four edges of a square piece of the right thickness with a plane to make an octagonal handle?---Jack

That's it

Frank D. in Montreal

>The blades with black teeth have only the teeth hardened. Sometimes it's hard to tell when the whole blade is dark, so if it seems too hard to penetrate I just take a torch to it for a few seconds. You can also use a carbide bit but they're expensive and don't fit into most braces :) I'll have to try the punch method, though, seems handier.

Re: Yes drill...

Ted Shuck

>A drill can be used, even on a hardended blade if it is heated first to remove the temper. I used a suggestion from Bugbear to heat only the spot that is to be drilled. Chuck a nail in your drill and apply the drill to the spot where you want the hole. The friction from the nail will locally heat the spot and soften the steel there. Chuck up your drill bit and drill through the softened spot easily.

Ted

Re: bow saw blade?

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Dear Dave,

After years of using bow saws, I find I use them for only a few operations. I don�t recommend their use for the following operations:

Long rips

Ripping with a framed saw is pretty inconvenient. The frame is a problem, the balance is a problem, unless you are using a felloe saw, but that's got its own problems. The most success I've had ripping with framed saws is with the saw held vertically (ripping at the bench/overhand technique).

Wide crosses

Ditto for cross cutting panels. You need a really long frame saw with a high stretcher to cross cut wide boards, and they get unwieldy, IMHO.

Bucking

If you work with narrow stock, a coarse buck saw is alright. But you'll probably end up using your panel saw for that since you'll need one for wide panel work anyway. That is if you use a hand saw for these cuts at all.

My recommendations

Sawing wood by hand can be acceptable (it will always be drudgery) if your saw is optimized for the work at hand. For joinery, I prefer back saws, but you may find framed saws are every bit as practical for joinery operations. Plus, you can make framed saws in length that are no longer available in back saws.

18� framed tenon saw.

This is the traditional length of 18th century backed tenon saws. Coincidentally, it�s the length Tage Frid (God rest his soul) recommended. You can buy the ready-made sandvik blades from Highland Hardware that Frid used on his saws. For joinery operations, you won�t need the turning mechanism, so you can fix the blade. This makes the saw much easier to build. Simply saw a kerf into the bottom of your arms and secure the blade with a nail.

With that success under your belt you can go on to build other joinery saws the exact same way. No reason why you couldn�t use a framed saw for dovetails. I recommend a 14� cross cut (12ppi) backsaw, but you could make a framed version of that without compromise.

12� Scroll saw

Highland Hardware (and others) also sell a 12� scroll saw blade. This is a trickier saw to make because of the turning handles, but I find its size quite helpful. I can turn a tight enough radius with the stock H-H blade. I use this saw vertically as one would a coping saw. Make at least one of the handles comfortable for this position. If you get the saw done and the handles are loose in the arms, put a rubber O-ring between the two to build friction. I�ve seen antique saws with a piece of paper wrapped around the metal shaft on the handle. I figured that the workman was annoyed by the frame swinging unexpectedly.

Blades

Band saw blades work fine. And lets dispense with the width myth. The width of the blade is pretty much irrelevant. That's not what keeps the saw tracking straight. When drilling band saw blades, center punch first then use a split-point drill bit (available anywhere, Sears carries them). Keep a low speed (like 500rpm) and use plenty of oil. No reason to light the torch. You may well end up tempering more blade than you wanted to. It will work though. But you can use anything for a blade. I've even cut up old hand saws with a cold chisel and made blades out of those. Its not as hard as it sounds.

Making Frames

When making framed saw frames, and depending on whether you go with the continental saddle design, or english mortise and tenon, allow some looseness in the joints for rotation. That way, when you wind the string, you actually produce blade tension. Also be careful when you shape the arms. The shape isn't arbitrary. Its nice when its light weight, but it needs to be stiff enough so the frame doesn't flex when you wind the string.

For the turning saw, since you'll be using the tool with the blade turned 90 degrees to the frame, try to make the joint tight to prevent the arm from rotating about its length. The looseness must be only such that the blade can be longer or shorter. No looseness in other directions is appropriate. (Sorry- I know this isn't clear).

Stringing

When attaching your string, use twisted stuff. It stretches a bit. Cotton carpenter's string works well. I use hemp twine and it breaks. Also, string your saw loosely and only 4 turns round. If you string it too tightly, it will break when you wind it.

Feel free to contact me off list if there's anything I can do. I may well have spare handles or something. Thanks for joining us.

Adam

Re: bow saw blade?

nhlett

>Hi Adam

Lots of good info in your message, but I have one question, what is a felloe saw? allowing for typoes I can't come up with a name I am familiar with.

Peter

Re: bow saw blade?

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Peter,

Picture a picture frame with a narrow blade in the middle. Its used by wheelwrights to saw the semicircular sections of wheels (called felloes).

Some guys here use them to rip. As the blade is centered in the picture frame, balance is better. But teh width of board you are working is still limited by the frame.

Adam

Re: bow saw blade?

nhlett

>Thanks, Adam. I found a drawing of a felloe saw at the Colonial Williamsburg site. My only comment is that holding the board must be a bear.

Thanks to you I learned something today!

Peter

Re: FRame saw construction and use *LINK*

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>If you are ripping a board that is too long to hold in a vise or on top of the bench with a holddown, you simply put it on two horses. Of course, you have to move the horses wrt the board as the cut progresses.

Here is a link to a Galoot's webpage detailing construction of a framesaw.

Frame Saw Construction

Re: bow saw blade?

paul womack

>Picture a picture frame with a narrow blade in the middle. Its used by wheelwrights to saw the semicircular sections of wheels (called felloes).

I beg to differ. A felloe saw is the same (more or less) as a turning saw, or (UK Usage) bow saw. I hate to be so bold, but I think the Collonial Williamsburg web site has it wrong on this one (at least as far as Sturt and Salaman)

This has the blade and string on the outside (under tension) and the compression member in the middle.

Compare and contrast (as my old English teacher used to say) with a "frame saw" where there are 2 compression members on the outside, and a single tension member (the blade) in the middle. At least in continental Europe and the UK, very large versions of these (with 6 foot blades) were used for sawing logs into planks - the ultimate rip cut.

BugBear

terminology

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bugbear,

If you look up Fellow saw in Salaman, it says see Bettye Saw.

In the entry for "Bettye Saw;...Felloe Saw"

Fig 596 (a) shows the saw I'm talking about. Page 408.

You're right though. According to Salaman, a felloe saw can have its blade either center or edge.

I don't usde Williamsburg definitions or terminology since I don't feel they do very good tool research. Their accomplishments are elsewhere. I rely on Salaman and Goodman. Along with Paul Womack, they are two of the smartest old tool guys ever to grace the British isles!

Adam

Re: terminology

Bob Nelson

>I'm curious about Adam's saying he doesn't think Williamsburg does very good tool research. I tracked this thread back a ways and couldn't find any place where anybody attributed anything to Williamsburg, so am not sure what was said to lead to Adam's comment. There are a large number of things I don't like about Williamsburg, but their tool research is not one of those and I have been favorably impressed with some of their tool research results I've seen. Bob

Re: FRame saw construction and use *LINK*

Roger Nixon

>Here is one Jr. Strasil made and uses with his saw benches.


Ripping with a framed saw