LN Low Angle Jack?

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>LV one is coming out on June 15th just waiting.

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>The primary difference between the LA smoother and LA jack is length, confirmed by Thomas LN prior to my order (I got the jack, which I love. Also, it's possible he was just humoring me.); so I'd keep looking. A real jack would be nice, a try plane, a fore plane, #6, etc.

Pam

Ok, I'll bite....

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>....Is there technically a difference between a fore plane and a try plane??

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

Greg Sloop

>I assume you're looking at the LN 164 and the LN 62 and the new LV 62.5. They're all low angle and all pretty similar. The basic differences are length.

I've got the 62 and really like it. I don't know that I need a shorter smoother anytime soon, so I'll probably do a jointer before that.

There are a few threads over the last few days and weeks about bevel up (LA) planes and IMHO their advantages.

Personally, I think I like the 62 better than the 164. I've used both, and I think I like the longer plane. More mass and I don't often need the shorter smoother.

Oh, BTW, the 62.5 veritas/LV is cheaper, but not yet available IIRC.

Best,

Greg

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

Todd Stock

>You've got the low angle thing covered - might look at a standard #5, which is very well done by LN. I've had a LA jack since it came out, but have not been tempted to retire my standard #5.

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

deanj

>I guess I don't understand why you'd pick a regular #5 over the LA #5. Does the wood know any difference? If I have the effective cutting angle at 45 degrees, what is the difference? Plus you get nice quick mouth adjustments with the LA Jacks.

Am I missing something obvious here?

-Dean

1 big one...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>The lateral adjuster.

I agree with Todd...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Rant on: A jack plane is made to remove a fair amount of wood at a time. A jack plane is not a smoother (although it can be set up as one). A jack plane has a crowned blade and is used as (or after) a scrub plane, and before a smoother.

Personally I don't see how you can call the LN62 a low angle jack plane. To me it's more like a low angle panel plane.

How can you put a nice crown on a bevel up plane and expect to work as a jack plane.

Last but not least another item is the lateral adjuster, very handy item not included on LN LA planes. Rant off, Scott

Believe what they say

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I have the 62LN and it is an awesome plane. You won't regret it.---Jack

Re: Ok, I'll bite....

Bob Nelson

>Hi Jonathan: Per both Salaman's Dictionary and Whelan's The Wooden Plane, Fore Plane is an alternative name for a Jack Plane and Try or Trying Plane is another name for (or type of) a Long Jointer. So Yes, there is a technical difference between the two. Best Wishes, Bob

Re: Ok, I'll bite....

Roy Hennagir Vista Ca

>....Is there technically a difference between a fore plane and a try plane??

One is for plane-ing wood and one is for trying to plane wood!:)

Leaned something new

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I didn't know there was no later adjuster in LN low angle planes. So why would the bevel up be harder to put a crown on the blade and would it be less effective or more. If so how much of a crown would you put.

Re: Low Angle Jack

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I have the L-N LA smoother and Jack, and the Lee Valley LA smoother. I have also spent a fair amount of time with a prototype of the Lee Valley Jack.

I like all of these planes when they are used with multiple blades tuned to an effective cutting angle most appropriate for the task and wood faced at the time. Yes, what Chris has said is born out in others experiences (and specifically by mine).

There are some differences betweent the L-N and LV smoothers, mostly related to blade thickness (greater on the L-N), how far back the mouth is set (greater on the LV) and provision for lateral adjustment (possible on the LV but not on the L-N).

These same differences carry over to the Jack planes, but there are also additional differences between the Jacks. The Lee Valley version is longer, wider, has a wider blade, has a mouth set much farther back, has a mushroom style front knob, and has what I find to be the wonderful additon of fine screw adjustement of the mouth.Also available for it is a HA blade prepared for a 50 degree effective cutting angle when installed in the plane.

The L-N Jack has a thicker blade which is cryogenically treated (of debatable significance).

To may way of thinking, the two Jacks are really rather different planes and most suitable for slightly different work. I think the L-N version, with its lighter weight and smaller size is most suited as a LA Jack plane for working on smaller surfaces like trimming dovetail ends on the side of a drawer.

The Lee Valley version I consider to be more of a panel plane where it performs superbly for the smoothing of large surfaces. Here, the finely adjustable mouth (via the screw mechanism), lateral adjustment, the long area of registration prior to the mouth, and the greater weight that makes it easier to use it at high cutting angles, all make it very suitable for high angle smoothing. Simply put, used with an effective cutting angle of over 60 degrees, this plane (well at least the prototype I used) has provided some of the best surfaces I have ever achieved on difficult to plane cocobolo.

One could actually have both the L-N and LV interpretation of a LA Jack and find that, with just a few differences in set up, they fill almost totally different roles. Both are excellent and highly versatile planes with just the addition of an extra blade or two (or three).

Re: 1 big one...

deanj

> lateral adjuster

Nope -- The LV LA Smoother and Jack have them.

Re: I agree with Todd...

deanj

>

A jack plane has a crowned blade and is used as (or after) a scrub plane, and before a smoother.

Yep, I use mine after a scrub, but I don't see how the LV Low Angle Jack can't do the above. Sharpen a crown on the blade, and set the mouth open...

How can you put a nice crown on a bevel up plane and expect to work as a jack plane.

I have a slight crown on my LA Smoother, no problmes at all. Why can't I do that on a Jack?

Last but not least another item is the lateral adjuster, very handy item not included on LN LA planes.

Yep, I agree, which is why I have the LV version.

I'm still trying to understand why I should get a #5 over the LA Jack?

-Dean

Personally I'd never

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>own a LV bench plane, high angle or low. Their butt-ulgy IMO. Nuff said.

I interped Barts post as he's looking at another LN.

My jack plane has a crown, probaly 1/16 or a little more. Beacause it a bevel down plane I can always have a reasonably tight mouth with it. By the time you get a crown that large on a LA plane I think it would have a mouth like Monica La... errr ...a horse.

Thanks Bob

Jonathan Peck -N.Y.

>OK I'm home now and I got the reference books out...yep, all of them. So I think that a trying plane could describe a plane from 20 to 30" long used for trueing stock and can be further broken down into small, medium amd large. At some point people started calling this size plane a jointer, but a long jointer can also be called a panel plane. You can also have a jack sized plane and call it a panel plane, but you could also call it a fore plane according to Salaman and Whelan. A fore plane can also refer to a plane 18" in length which might also be called a jointer or try plane because it's used for trueing stock .

Whew...glad I got that cleared up.

Re: Leaned something new

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Because of the bevel being crowned,not the back,the mouth will not be equidistant from the cutting edge on a bevel up plane. This could cause choking. Probably not an affective fault but possibly an issue.JR (I believe I just convinced myself that it wouldn't be. I love the way this forum makes you think.)

HIJACK (all puns intended)!

Patrick Gibbons

>We've skirted around this issue in many threads but I now am more curious than ever. Why are metallic bench planes set at a 45 degree frog? Why was that adopted as the standard? Common sense tells me there were good reasons. What are your thoughts?

Re: I agree with Todd...

Todd Stock

>I find low angle planes to be most useful for endgrain and smoothing softwoods, and bench planes best for regular work on hardwoods. Maybe it's me, but after 25 years of hand tool woodworking, it's what works.

If you do choose to minimize your planes, and getting down to one LA with 18 blades (Swiss Army Plane, anyone?), I can make a decent offer for all those useless planes you've accumulated...

lol.

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>

Re: Leaned something new

Todd Stock

>If you habitually screw up the grind on your blades, a lateral adjuster might be necessary, but not in my experience.

Re: Leaned something new

Todd Stock

>I think that for the cuts we usually use a jack for, it would not matter too much, but bevel up geometry will result in a narrowing of the blade to body opening proportional to the radius of the edge curvature.

This could be addressed by grinding the mouth insert to a matching curvature.

Re: LN Low Angle Jack?

Jonathan Peck -N.Y.

>I couldn't agree with you more on this, except for one thing. Why would anyone need such a finely tuned jack plane as to need to empty their wallet for a LN or LV? Wouldn't any common Bailey which can be found for $30+- in decent condition with some minor fettling be suitable to follow the scrub?

But to answer the original question, my personal favorite is the standard bed angle LN #4 (#604) brass smoother with the cherry tote and knob. Just imagine the look on your kids faces when they present this handsome plane on fathers day.

Regards

Jonathan - who can understand buying a premium plane for a go to smoother, but is still trying to understand the LA smoother thing. I can imagine that the angle of attack on a LA might suit some woods, but as an all around smoother...really??