'A hole's a hole"

Re: 'A hole's a hole"

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>So out of curiosity how was the course overall? I saw his article in FWW where he make a windsor stool and used the same setup. It still takes a pile of power to use a reamer bit wonder how he plans on avoiding that?

Re: 'A hole's a hole"

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>The course was a challenge. We all made our spindles ahead of time to save time during the week. Regardless of similarity with the sack back, the additional size and set of legs in the settee provided more than enough to keep us occupied.

The bow size in the settee seems a bit large to me. We were told to make them to 1", for a 7/8" finished dimension. The sack backs I have made were made to 7/8", and some ended much smaller in diameter by the time they were dried and finished. They look better IMHO, but drilling the last two pair of 3/8" spindle holes in such a thing cross section is a challenge.

I don't believe they are planning on using a power drill with the reamer. Having said that, I don't recall the reamer being specifically addressed. The technique of working the reamer to finely tune the leg and arm stump angles is one of the Windsor Institute's major technical training points.

Greg

Finished Settee in the white

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>I meant to include this in my last posting:

Is that ever nice

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>That would make a great shop shot's. Greg that would be so perfect on the front porch very inspirational. Thanks Jim

Re: Finished Settee in the white

Dave Anderson Chester,NH

>Nice settee Greg, but I can't say much for your choice of brew. I went to school with Duff Whaley whose family used to own Jenny, and even they didn't drink the stuff- strictly Michelob for them.

If I'd know you were attending the settee class I would have stopped by. I only live half an hour away and get over to see Mike,Dan, etc at least every 6 weeks or so. I can't imagine what it's like to take a settee clas with 18 people, when I took mine 4 years ago there were only 16 in the class and it was really hard to move around then.

I guess my Emhoff bits and reamer will become collecotrs items now. By the way I don't use my reamer in a brace, I made a small Tee handle for it and it's much more accurate to use. That's the way Dave Sawyer teaches.

Re: Is that ever nice

dave caudill

>Wow nice settee and you're a Genny man to boot. Its too bad that they might go the power route as part of the pleasure of doing the class and the techniques is the hand tools. I did the sack back class and got a lot of pleasure out of using hand tools for the project.

I did get some of Fred's bits before he decided to give it up. He was trying to sell the business but apparently no one is taking him up on it.

Dave

Re: Finished Settee in the white

Alan Hamilton

>Greg,

Very nice work. Windsors all look so delicate to me; yours looks very elegant besides.

Will the switch to power mean that all students must use power drills? Or if some want, may they use, and get instruction in, spoon bits?

Alan

Congratulations and Question

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Greg,

That is a truly beautiful piece of furniture! I have a question: What is the finish? Is it milk paint? And does the figure of the wood show through--I can't quite tell?

Thanks in advance, Wiley

Re: Is that ever nice

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Thanks.

You can pay more for beer, but you can't buy better. OK, maybe that's a little exageration.

From Mike's discussion he was sort of waiting for Fred to throw in the towel before he switched to power drills. He was leaning in that directon for some time.

There probably wasn't a whole lot of demand for spoon bits, like enough business to entice a tool factory to take up the line. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't a machinist out there willing and able to keep up with a small but steady demand.

Greg

Re: Finished Settee in the white

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Hi Dave,

It was nice weather and two guys worked in the steaming shed. Two other folks worked on the small bench in the front of his shop. But yeah, it was crowded.

I'm looking forward to meeting you some day- isn't wood days coming up soon? Maybe I can talk my wife into a day trip...

Greg

Re: Finished Settee in the white

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Mike made it clear that anyone who wanted to use spoon bits would be allowed to. But they probably don't want to have to slow the class down to sharpen someone's bits. Fred Emhoff's came ready to go, and a little touch up now and again with fine and finer sandpaper keeps them that way.

Another issue is that other types of spoon bits are not up to the job. If you showed up in class with some other makes of bits that were problemmatic, they might resist dealing with them.

The days are generally jammed with the things in the syllabus, they are always looking for ways to ensure everyone who has paid for a class to go home with a complete chair. If there is time the staff will discuss anything your heart desires. But if time seems to be getting tight, they really work on keeping things focused.

Greg

Re: Congratulations and Question

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Thanks. The chair is not finished yet.

Generally hand made Windsor chairs are painted because they are made of different kinds of woods. My settee has ash spindles (we had to make them before the class, and that's what kind of log I had lying around). The Windsor Institute supplies green red oak stock to make the steam bent bow and arm rail and white pine for the seat. The arm stumps and undercarriage are hard maple. You can imagine that applying a uniform 'natural' finish on such a combination would be difficult.

I generally use milk paint, with a top coat of Danish oil or boiled linseed oil, followed by paste wax. Some guys use oil paints like Old Village, etc. One guy in the class said he used black Rustoleum on one of his!

Greg

I find a brace to give me MORE torque

Paul M in San Diego

>I'm surprised at the comment about students not being able to drive a bit with a brace and using a power drill instead. I've found the opposite to be true.

I've been installing ceramic tile all week, and I needed to drive a billion screws to hold the subfloor down (common cement board). I drove these screws with my Dewalt corded drill (no clutch), but they all wound up just proud of the surface before the drill bogged down. I chucked the square-drive bit into a brace, and gave each screw an extra half-turn to drive them in so they are flush. Hand-tools to the rescue!

Hi Greg- I posted the Wood Days info on....

Dave Anderson Chester,NH

>I posted the Wood Days info on the Events board here on Woodcentral. Try to make it down if you can, it's a great time. I'll be demoing tool making as usual.

Re: I find a brace gives me MORE torque, bit type?

Ted Shuck

>I also find that I can generate more torque with a brace that with one of those 'lectric things. The biggest difference may be in the type of drill bit used, spoon vs. bradpoint. I find a bradpoint bit to drive more easily than an auger bit in many cases, although it is slower going.

I would like to know more about the bradpoint bits are are being used in the class and whether they have tried using these bits in a brace. The Yankee or Sampson type chucks hold them fine for me.

Ted

Re: I find a brace gives me MORE torque, bit type?

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>The 5/8" holes in hard maple undercarriage parts are the tough ones. A drill with the correct gage pilot threads would help, but the pilot would protrude through the other side of the part before reaching the proper depth.

Bradpoints may be easier than spoon bits, butI can't tell you if The Windosor Intstitute considered using them in braces.

Mike D. mentioned a couple times a few of his past students who seemed to lack the physical size or strength to easily make the holes with brace and bit. As I said before, I think part of the idea behind this transition is to open the experience of chair making to a broader cross section of humanity.

I know they have over time changed a few other aspects of the chair making process in order to simplify or foolproof the experience. Regardless of how one views the changes (dumbing down or process improvement, etc.) this is only good business practice. The Windsor Institute needs to enable as many people as possible to attend their classes and leave satisfied- which generally means that they completed their chair.

This broadening of the constituency does come with the danger of putting off adherents of the old ways. I believe this is similar to some of the themes that have been bounced around in threads on woodworking magazines we've had here lateley.

Greg