WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

Old Woman's Tooth

Posts

Old Woman's Tooth

#1

Old Woman's Tooth

William Duffield on the Cohansey

>Here is a recent acquisition. The function and construction of this one is not much in question. Further discussion is encouraged, as detail questions remain unanswered.


Obviously it is a router, of the type usually called an "Old Woman's Tooth." All the evidence indicates that it is one-of-a-kind, probably constructed by the craftsman who subsequently used it in his work. His name was "M.LOWRY" as evidenced by the four maker/owner's marks stamped into the hardwood body. These routers were often made by patternmakers. The body was cut from a single piece of hardwood, probably hard maple, 2" x 3-1/2" x 18".


To the bottom is attached a flat steel plate, about 5/32" thick. It is screwed to the body with 17 flat head flat slot screws. The surfaces of the screws and plate were ground flat after assembly.


The cutter is about 5/16" x 1/2" x 4" long. on the end is stamped "4" and "C Y". The wing nut is marked "CN" on one wing and "U" on the other.

As received, the cutter was not tightly secured. I got it to work with a wooden shim between the cutter and the router's body. Deepening the mortise for the holder would have accomplished the same result, but I didn't want to modify it except to clean it up a little. It also occurred to me that the cutter may not be original, especially since it has circular marks in one side from a set screw. At least, it was previously used in some other tool.

Overall, it is solidly built. There are no rough edges, all the corners of the wood have been smoothly radiused, and finish has been applied to all the parts. No special care was taken to achieve a fine surface finish. There are grinding marks, saw and scribe marks, wire brush and file marks, and lots of scratches and small dings from use. It was definitely constructed as a tool to be used hard, with no consideration for artistic merit.

The last photo should provide sufficient additional construction details to allow the interested toolmaker to construct one of these. It shows that the cutter holder is welded together.


I suspect that this type of tool was fairly common in the toolboxes of patternmakers and other woodworking specialists, even though each one is unique. Since they are not labeled "Stanley" or "Disston" or "KK" or "TY", collectors may have less interest in them, keeping the market price somewhat depressed. Does anyone have any SWAGs as to the value or approximate date of manufacture?

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#2

Re: Old Woman's Tooth *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Stylistically it reminds me of the primitive man and wife plane I happened upon on ebay last week.

Pam


Primitive plane

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#3

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>Fascinating. I've seen lots of routers, but never anything like that. I've seen very wide molding planes with provision for a rope, but nothing that small. Maybe if it's builder should have spent a little more effort on sharpening technique, he wouldn't have needed help :^)

OTOH, I don't think there's any way I could encourage my wife to particpate in the creation of sawdust and shavings in my shop.

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#4

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, I think the "man and wife" description is imaginative, most likely two-man is the more used term. I'm the same way about Jack in my shop, he's positively destructive.

Pam

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#5

Not Old Woman's Tooth

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Sir William,

That's not technically an OWT, that's a D-router and its cutter is installed backwards. An OWT holds a plow plane-like iron at a high angle like a scraper. The iron projects from the bottom of the tool looks like a single front upper tooth (thus the name).

I have at least two smoothers with applied metal soles like that one. I think the whole notion of applying a metal sole to a wooden tool is late Victorian or Edwardian (when metal planes became more popular). This tool could be earlier, and modified at that time, but the hardware suggests otherwise. So I'm guessing 1880-1920. Todd will know better.

I'm with you thinking this is a good tool for a pattern maker. I never use such tools for cabinetry and can't see how they were useful (and that might help explain their scarcity).

As for value, I don't think they are either particularly collectible or useful. I've seen tools like that on ebay sell for $40-$75. I'd be inclined to try it at the next crafts auction. Prices seem pretty high there.

Adam

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#6

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

Todd Hughes

>Because the holder is arc welded I would guess it was made between 1920 and WW II though could be later or a little bit early I supose. Had to be made also when screws were cheap and plentiful to use that many. On truely old tools you never see screws "wasted" like that because they were to expensive and hard to get....My guess is a pattern maker or perhaps a waggon maker....as to vaule I think probably about $20- $40 with the seller very lucky to get the higher price. Just not much interest in primitive tools because I think they are to hard to evaluate and impossiable to determine who made them and when....Todd

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#7

Re: Blade direction?

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>If I turn the blade around, it still has a mouth that is 1/4" wide, all the shavings clog up between the blade and the mortise, and I can't see to guide it. After the blade has been extended to increase the depth of the cut, a small mouth opening doesn't help either. The other routers with which I have experience (not including my Porter-Cable :^), also have a very open "mouth. If I were using it to flatten the surface of a piecrust table top, I would understand the importance of a closed mouth, but for cleaning the bottom of a hinge mortise, for example, I question the importance.

Another potential problem with turning it around is the decreased support for the cutter directly behind the cutting edge, which I think would increase chatter.

Am I missing something? Is there another reason for turning the blade around?

I agree, while it is a curiosity, and therefore interesting to have around, I do not see how it could be considered anywhere near essential for most cabinetmaking projects.

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#8

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>Thanks, Todd. I agree it would not be reasonable for a collector to highly value any craftsman-made one-off tool, especially one like this that does not show exceptionally fine craftsmanship and artistic considerations. I could understand a museum curator or historian highly valuing a tool, but only if it was documented who had built it, when it was built, and what he had built with it in turn, and then only if the work has historical importance and the creation and use of the tool were important to the making of the history.

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#9

Re: Blade direction?

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I'm sorry William. I don't get it. You know how the router is basically a stick, with the round piece on it? The round piece is the front of the tool. You look through that hole as you cut.

I didn't get the clogging. There is no "throat on this tool per se.

I might be on the wrong page telling you something you already know. Try me again offline if you are saying something I'm not getting (I think that's the case)

Adam

Re: Old Woman's Tooth

#10

Re: Blade direction?

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>Ah, now I understand.

When you wrote "...and the cutter is installed backwards," I thought you meant I had installed it incorrectly in the pictures I took, not that the cutter is oriented differently in a "D-router" than in a real "Hag's Tooth".

Also, thanks for the nomenclatural clarification. I appreciate the edification. In the future, I'll be more careful. An additional note: The other tool, using a plough plane blade, is a lot easier to keep sharpened than this thing. After a few sharpenings of this one, the cutter has to be totally reground. This probably would not have been a major issue for a patternmaker, but for cabinetmakers, it would have been a major PITA. The L-shaped cutters that come with the Stanley #71 router last longer, but not nearly as long a plough plane blade.

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.