>Recently purchased an old Bailey #5C on ebay for a friend. The plane was "supposedly" manufactured around 1912. It is in good shape, but upon close examination, we found a very faint stamp on the side of the plane that said "DAMAGED". We started looking for any damage and finally found (with magnifying glass)what appears to be a surface fracture in the side about 3/4" long right above the mouth. This does not go completely thru the iron. This was not mentioned in the description of the plane and my friend is not really worried about it because he is not a collector and just wanted it as a working plane. I can't seem to find anything about Stanley marking planes in this manner and don't know what effect it has on the value or utility. Any comments?
>It may affect the usability of the plane. The japanning may shroud the fact that the crack may be deeper than just at the surface. If the crack is completely through the cheek the plane body may flex and provide erratic chip formation,tearout, and chatter.
I would consider returning the plane to the vendor as not completely described and if not returning it at least negotiating a discount or rebate. There are hundreds of baily planes out there and your friend owes it to himself to at least aquire a healthy plane to use.
I have no information on the "damaged" stamp but it may provide an outlet for the plane if all else fails. This may be a Stanley rarity and as such be collectable in it's own right. A collector may want it for a variant that is new to him or her.JR
>To me, the DAMAGED stamp means either a casting defect (a hole in the sole or outer machined side) or a milling cutter mishap. I think I�ve seen old news-list discussions mentioning planes marked as damaged that had no damage�perhaps a way the workers could get out of the plant with a freebie. No doubt there is a �collector� out there lusting after what you have, as Joe suggests.
To me, the crack implies the plane was dropped, or more likely bent/twisted beyond it�s elastic limit. I also agree with Joe that this may (and likely does) mean the plane won�t work right. I�ve received more than my share of Ebay Bailey style planes with a crack in the same place. The most tragic was an utterly gorgeous Union #7 that the seller ultimately took back for a refund. I was initially doubtful of the seller�s claim that it left him without the huge crack I found. Then I researched the topic on the internet and learned this is a common problem, sometimes due to bad karma, sometimes due to pathetically careless packing, and sometimes due to notoriously careless shippers. There are a lot of remarks on the internet about which shipper (e.g. FedEx, UPS, USPS, etc.,) is best or worst at not breaking cast iron planes. Whether the crack occurs when a worker chucks the box from the truck to the ground, or the load shifts in the truck (imagine your #7 straddling a 1X2 when you back your truck over it) is debatable. For now, my limit on having cast iron planes shipped cuts off at the #4, and even then I think I�m gambling.
So I think it is possible the stamp and the crack may not necessarily be connected. If you weren�t informed about the DAMAGED stamp, I would think the seller would be happy to deal with it in order to avoid a negative feedback, at the least. The crack may require that you go to the shipper and the insurer for redress. But I�d think it depends on how much money is involved. If it was $20, I think I�d consider it a learning experience, or the purchase of parts, and move on.
For the fun of it I just searched completed Ebay auctions with �plane 5 (Stanley,Bailey)� and got 172 hits, most of which were #5 planes. I almost fell out of my chair looking at one that went for $125�and no (to those aficionados out there) it wasn�t a pre-lateral. It was a clean looking Type 9 or Type 10. But still. There were a couple score good users in the $10 - $20 range for those not frightened by a little rust or flaking japanning. Really, lots of bargains.
It would be interesting to me to see a picture of the plane you are talking about. If recent, Ebay may still have it up if you�ve kept the number.
>For what its worth, I picked up a 605 Bedrock about a month ago from a Patrick Leach auction on Ebay. My cost was $95.00, including insured shipping, and was worth every bit of that cost plus a few dollars more. The point is, learn who the seller is, or ask the questions up front. I spent about four or five hours on the plane sole, plus put in a Hock blade & chipbreaker, and I getting full width edge curls, under .002". A bit more fettling in still in order, but very good planes are out there.
>Carole, clearly this is a bit more of a dilemma. The plane you show is extremely handsome to me. The Type 11 era Bailey�s have a special attraction for just about everybody. The gorgeous Brazilian rosewood looks to be masterfully redone and the japan deoxidizing is neither overdone nor underdone. The plane looks to be detailed (cleaned and polished) very tastefully. This seller really knows how to prepare the looks of the object and photograph it. The hang hole will damn your plane to second class collector status, but I don�t think many would consider the Bailey #5 a collector object in the first place. These guys are just solid workhorses and yours is brimming with esthetics. You definitely got a plane worth having�save for the mark and crack issue.
True enough, the DAMAGED mark and the possibly significant crack would have spoiled some of the joy and pride in this plane for me, had I received it early in my Ebaying days. I was pretty ignorant and paranoid and suspicious. Even more than the money, I worried that a possible flaw meant I�d been fleeced�a nearly intolerable humiliation. Now I�ve come to anticipate fleecing in the same way as birthdays: inevitable.
But back to your plane. If I were you, I�d completely dismiss the DAMAGED mark and focus on whether the crack is or is not structurally important. I�d put oil around the crack, shine a strong light to produce reflections, and then apply bending and twisting force across the crack (nothing more than I could generate with my hands and arms and perhaps knee). If you can bust an uncracked #5 with your bare hands you are a much better man than me. Refection off the oil should let you detect even very slight movement. If there is visible movement across the crack, I�d say the plane will never work right�no matter how you might try to fix it. With most of the mouth and side wall cracks that I�ve received, oil and light wasn�t necessary; I could open and close the crack at will with 10 or 20 pounds of force. Since you did pay top dollar from an obvious dealer, who has a perfect ebay feedback record, you should have no trouble unwinding the purchase.
If the torsion/bending test shows no movement, the only thing left that I can think of would be to fine tune the plane and put it to wood. Unless you friend is an old hand at this, he should go to the RJ Whelan guidelines on tuning a plane, which is probably among the BP articles on this forum. I�ve never receive a Bailey plane that was anywhere adequately tuned to actually work�the most untuned being the most pristine, for obvious reasons. Buying the plane is just the beginning of the process. Without tuning the plane and having a perfectly sharp and well-set blade, I doubt you�ll really be able to tell whether planing problems are the fault of the crack or the fault of 10 or 20 little intricacies that must be controlled to get the very best out of a Bailey. And, I would think it unfair to ask for money back after you�ve started tuning a plane, but others may differ.
In the end, even at the worst, you still have what I think of as perfect plane, only in need of a replacement Type 11 body. On Ebay, there are vastly more #5s with busted up totes and amputated frogs and assorted missing parts than cracked bodies. As well, old tool dealers have lots of parts.
>You definitely got a legitimite gripe here. I'd contact the seller and request a refund. No use sweating over a common as dirt jack plane, even if it is in nice clean condition. If the seller won't give you your money back, you can always sell off the parts separately. I don't think that this plane is worth repairing, but if you know someone who can weld it for you, it should work fine
>I have seen and have owned more then a few Stanley tools that were marked at the factory either "Damaged" or much more common in my experance "Imperfect". Most of these have been chisels where the grind lines are slightly off though I have had a few planes. Sometimes the problim is easy to see like the block plane where the hole for the back post was drilled right though the bottom of the sole others I never could find the trouble.As to the plane in question I don't know if it is the crack that caused it to be marked Damaged or not.To me ones that are marked "Imperfect" means they were made wrong while "damaged" means....well they were damaged so maybe it does address the crack. Personaly if I wanted a user I would try the plane out and see how it works, I bet a crack this small doesn't affect anything. I think if the crack is going to get worse it probably would have done it in the last 80+ years.....Vaule wise tools marked like this while being more rare it really hurts the vaule and they sell for much less,[if you can sell them!] then a simular unmarked tool. I would have stripped this plane down for parts and tossed the casting out into the woods myself if I was selling it.......Todd
