Good Dovetail Saws

Just curious...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>...but if you like the saw you're using, why a new one? Not that I have anything against any rationalization required for tool purchasing, but like I said, just curious.

Scott, who'd like to pick up a few more dovetail saws, though I haven't used the one I have in months

Re: Just curious...

Zack A.

>The Japanese saw has such a thin blade that if it flexes it could ruen (cant spell sorry) the work piece and the saw blade.

Re: Good Dovetail Saws

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Just a brief editorial. There are a fair number of good dovetail saws out there: L-N Independence; Adria, various Dozukis including the new Lee Valley Rip Tooth Dozuki, and the list could go on.

How happy you are going to be with any saw is going to depend a lot on how well it matches the kind of work you do (sound familiar). Western rip tooth dovetail saws (no that is not an oxymoron, as a lot of things sold as dovetail saws still have crosscut teeth)work best in my experience when used to cut larger dovetails in wood 1/2 inch or greater in thickness.

The Western saws (L-N, Adria and the like)have widely spaced teeth (usually around 14 tpi) with deeper gullets that allow good clearance of chips and require fewer strokes to make the cut (and thus fewer opportunities for alignment change). Thus this is a good match for thicker woods and deeper dovetails.

Japanese saws tend to do best, again in my experience, making smaller dovetails in thinner wood. Wood chip build up is minimal because of the short distance from one side of the wood to the other, so you don't need deep gullets. The distance cut is also shorter, so the less agressive strokes of the small teeth are less problematic. Smaller dovetails also usually call for a better finish, and the fine toothed dozuki will usually yield this.

There is the old three tooth rule, which is actually better considered a six or seven tooth rule; that is, always make sure six teeth are in contact with your wood at the same time. The differences in blade styles and associated TPI (or PPI, if you prefer) with respect to cutting dovetails can easily be measured by this rule. Thus 1/4 inch wood is going to respond poorly to a 10 TPI saw, but will do well with the 26 or so which are common to a Dozuki. But going well beyond those 3-7 contact teeth, so that you have 13 or more teeth in contact with a 1/2 inch piece of wood (and worse still for a 3/4 in piece) will make for much less efficient cutting.

So, even the "best" dovetail saw out there will not perform ideally for you if it is not well matched to the application. For me, this means my Peter Taran Indepence Saw for thicker, larger dovetails, and a mid priced LV dozuki for smaller work.

Re: Good Dovetail Saws

Dennis

>Depending on what you want to do, thickness of wood,size of tails,ect, I would make my own bow saw and then you can have wide choice of blades to use. Lot of options with bow saw from big to small and then you can even make frame saw to re saw with.

just my 02cents worth

Dennis

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Re: Good Dovetail Saws

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>My 2 cents is a vote for LN saw. I want to pick up a adria but the other hobby Golf is calling.

Yes, and

Frank D. in Montreal

>the same can be said for soft wood vs. hard woods. Here in Quebec pine is the favored wood, and western saws are very difficult to control when you get near the bottom of the cut. Japanese saws can't hold a line as well in hard woods (at least the ones I've tried) but they give just the right cut rate in soft woods and much less chance of sawing past the line.

LV dozuki

Robin Frierson

>To me the hardest part is getting the cut started on the line, and the new LV rip filed Dozuki seems to work the best for me. I use mainly 1/2in soft maple for drawer sides and it works better in my shaky hands than the LN dovetail. One thing though, it leaves a pretty thin kerf, so you gotta drop down to a much finer fret saw blade to saw the waste on the tails. I think I use a #5.

Re: Yes, and (Dozuki for soft woods)

Ted Shuck

>I prefer a western-style dovetail saw for hard woods, but I have found a dozuki to work much better in soft woods though.

Trying to figure out why, I think it is related to Lyn's explanation of why you need more tpi to cut thinner stock. The hard woods which I have used seem to have a more uniform density and thinner growth rings, while soft woods have more pronounced hard and soft layers and thicker growth rings. This thicker, less homogeneous layering seems to give a similar effect to thinner stock, where saws with coarser teeth do not cut as smoothly.

Or, maybe I'm just confused...

Ted

Re: Yes, and (Dozuki for soft woods)

Tim

>Ted,

Your observation may well have to do with the traditions of each. Japanese, traditionally made much of their stuff from softwoods and not hardwoods. Western culture has used hardwoods a lot more.....

Erego, Japanese tools developed to be most efficient with working softwoods - one of the reasons why such hard steel works well in their chisels.

Tim