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steel for tools, reading the tables

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steel for tools, reading the tables

#1

steel for tools, reading the tables

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I composed the following to help people interpret data they might find on tool steels. It is not meant to be a guide to steel selection as I don't know enough to write such a guide and the more I learn the more I know I don't know. But as more people poke into this matter we will eventually learn to optimize steel selection just as the knife makers have done. The pictures in the Brent Beach article referenced in a previous sharpening post should encourage people that there are significant improvements possible in the steels used for our tools. The convenient and cheap sources of steel and heat treating make any of these steels available to us for experimentation.

A variety of steels are used for woodworking tools and an even greater variety of steels are available for those that might want to make their own tools. Data are available on the properties of these steels. For example, Crucible Service Centers provides comprehensive data on many steels, www.crucibleservice.com. Manufacturers of steel usually provide data on hardness, toughness, wear resistance and red hardness. How can woodworkers use this data to choose the best steel for a woodworking tool?

A woodworking tool cutting edge can fail in use by crumbling, chipping, and/or wearing. All these factors dull the edge or in extreme cases might result in breakage. Therefore, steel properties that affect these factors are of interest. Red hardness is only relevant for steel used at very high temperature, for example cutting metal, so it is not a property of interest to woodworkers.

Hardness is a measure of the steel's resistance to deformation-bending or denting. This hardness is measured with a Rockwell Hardness scale, abbreviated Rc, which uses a diamond point to test how easily the metal dents. Diamond has a Rc hardness of 100, chisels and plane irons are about 60 and tools that can be filed such as saws have Rockwell hardness in the low 50's. The edge of a harder chisel will be less prone to bending or crumbling in use than one that is less hard. As will be discussed below, steels with similar hardness may differ significantly in wear resistance and brittleness.

Toughness is a measure of steel's brittleness. So, for example, the cutting edge of a tougher steel will be less prone to chipping or even breaking than one less tough. Hard steels can be brittle. Dulling can occur as a result of tiny chips at the cutting edge if the steel is not sufficiently tough. Ideally, a steel will be both hard and tough for best edge retention.

There are many kinds of wear and not all of these measures are relevant to woodworking. The wear reported most frequently, for example Crucible Service site Tables, is called adhesive wear. This kind of wear occurs when two metals rub together, for example in gears, and it has less relevance to woodworking tools. Abrasive wear is a measure of wear resulting from abrasive particles rubbing on a metal. Abrasive wear is a good measure of how difficult a metal is to sharpen or how fast it might wear while rubbing on wood. The Rockwell hardness is not a good measure of wear resistance. For highly alloyed tool steels the amount and hardness of the alloy carbides, or example vanadium or molybdenum carbide, best predict wear. Vanadium carbides formed during heat treating are greatly harder than the iron carbides in a simple carbon steel. Therefore, a simple carbon steel with hardness Rc 60 will be less wear resistant than a Rc 60 steel that is alloyed with vanadium. It follows that a more wear resistant steel can be difficult to sharpen unless a very hard abrasive is used, for example diamond. Another kind of wear is called chemical wear. A better description could be corrosive wear. In this case, chemicals in the wood, plus heat and air, change the composition of the cutting edge surface. The softer products formed are more prone to abrasive wear. Although abrasive, and possibly chemical, wear properties are most important to woodworkers, I do not know where to readily find these data for tool steels. Adhesive wear may provide some indication of these other wear properties but I think I have seen a case (CPM 3V) where the abrasive wear of a steel is greater than the adhesive wear value would indicate.

No steel delivers exceptional hardness, toughness and wear. Tradeoffs are made depending on which property is most important for an application and personal preferences. Wear resistance might be most important for a lathe tool, so a steel high in vanadium would be selected. But, this steel would be too brittle for a tool subject to impact such as a dovetail chisel. Or, an individual might decide the difficulty sharpening such a tool was too great and opt for something easier to sharpen. For a mortise chisel hardness and toughness is important to prevent the tip from breaking or crumbling. Wear resistance can be sacrificed some to get this toughness. For a plane iron all these factors must be balanced. Understanding where to get data on steel properties as well as an understanding of how to read the tables will help woodworkers make better tool and tool steel selections. But remember, the optimum properties of steel are only realized when it is precisely heat treated.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#2

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

John, NY

>I am a mechanical engineer and understand some of what Bill is aluding to but have a dispute with one of his definitions. Hardness is a measure of a materials resistance to indentation, period. Stiffness would be the resistance to bending/deformation.

Toughness is measured by swinging a large weighted pendulum from a given height into a notched specimen. A very tough specimen will give a brittle fracture face and absorb a relatively large amount of energy [measured by how much the pendulum follows through], however, lead will absorb a large amount of energy but gives an essentially clean cut. I seem to recall that there are different ways of testing things like lead.

Heat treatment consists of two stages [usually, again dependent upon what is being done], hardening [can also be case hardening] and tempering.

Material composition, hardening heat treatment and tempering heat treatment are all very important in the tool making process. Don't know what to tell you, a Bachelors in Metallurgy might help!

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#3

More info and thoughts. Longish...

John, NY

>I�ve been thinking on this some more. Trying not to be negative, this is a very complex subject but not insurmountable.

There are several hardness scales [Rockwell A,B,C,D,E, Vickers, Brinell etc], HRC is recommended for materials with HRB > 100. Be careful that the scale you are looking at is HRC or Rockwell hardness scale C. HRC is only recommended if the value is less than 69. Above 69 move to HRD which covers case hardened materials. The scales are dictated by the way in which the indentation is produced, i.e. size of diamond, or steel ball and force applied. At ~62 HRC should be fine.

Toughness tends to be more than a basic material property and is more applicable to fracture mechanics which is a whole science in itself and encompasses notch sensitivity and fatigue. It is however important for things that get hit! We don�t hit the metal directly with the hammer which helps but a reasonable toughness is required.

The ability to hold an edge is probably more to do with the grain size of the steel than either of hardness or toughness. A small grain would have the ability to be polished both more easily and to a better finish. Larger grain materials would inherantly produce a rougher surface which would have an impact on edge holding ability since small slivers would break off more easily. If you look at some of the texts on sharpening they often show microscope images of sharp and not so sharp edges. The sharp edges are always the smoothest ones.

Material property tables can be confusing and contradictory, there is often not a standard for dealing with the very large spread in data that is produced during specimen testing. Manufacturers of the materials tend to err on the optimistic side not surprisingly.

Firstly, steel is an alloy. It is a mixture of Iron and carbon. More carbon makes the steel harder and more brittle. But Iron is very hard and very, very brittle on its own. So an optimum range of carbon levels provide us with a range of properties that we can adjust by locally increasing carbon content [case hardening] or by changing crytalline, grain structure. Other elements added to the steel change its properties too, chromium makes it more resistant to oxidation, vanadium increases its wear ability but makes it more brittle etc etc.

One of the reasons that Japanese steel has been able to obtain a better edge and hold it for longer is because of the process of hammering and folding that the Japanese smiths use which produces a hard, small grained structure made up of multiple layers. This is then laminated over a more ductile steel producing a less brittle product. A2 or any of the other alloy tool steels are not going to give you this directly. The way the western world has traditionally dealt with hard surface/ductile core is to case harden and temper. These are achieved with heat treatment. Heat treatment actually changes the grain size, shape and quality of the steel. This is why some steels [some of the fancy alloys] require very tightly controlled heat treatment in order that things like vanadium, chromium, nickel etc that have been added to them are not burnt or damaged during the process.

So there we have a load of disjointed thoughts and facts. My take on the whole thing is to look at what other people are using for tool steels. They are using them for a reason. Talk to the material suppliers, what do they recommend. Even professional engineers draw from previous experience. Look at the various heat treatment options� I think what we are looking for is a HRC ~62 [ever noticed that on a Robert Sorby chisel that there is a small indentation on the back of the cutting edge, they test the hardness of each and every one!] a good stiffness and toughness [but not exceptional], I can�t give you figures for those. And lastly a small grain structure [after heat treatment] which will help with edge retention, especially if you polish/strop your cutting edge. I can certainly shave with my Sorby�s after I�ve sharpened them and my edge retention is good provided I polish the cutting edge to a mirror finish.

I�m not an expert by any means on metallurgy or sharpening, I probably know enough about both to be dangerous but these are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Thanks for reading them and feel free to comment further...

John

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#4

A little perspective...

Scott Post

>I do R&D for a living so I understand the desire to understand any phenomenon in excrutiating detail. That's fine. The problem is the tendency lose a sense of perspective and assign more importance than a situation warrants. To me, the last thing in the world the woodworking community needs is a mass of theoretical data for hobbiests to dig through with the mistaken notion that it'll make any practical difference in their tools. Look at all the hand wringing that's come up in recent years over O1 vs. A2 and the necessity of cryogenic heat treatment. Unless a chisel or iron has exceptionally bad steel or heat treatment it just doesn't make any practical difference. Touching up a chisel takes seconds so why worry about whether it has to be done after one drawer's worth of dovetails or halfway through the second?

A move to exotic steels and heat treating methods for woodworking tools is only going to make them more expensive without any practical improvement. I can live with that because my old Witherby's will treat me fine until that morning I wake up on the wrong side of the grass. The problem will be the newbies who don't understand that this is just an intellectual exercise and that they don't really need to pay $50 for a chisel.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#5

should have made clear....

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I am delighted the post stimulted thinking about steel properties. I should have made clear that the information I provided was a summary of information from various steel producers technical information as well as discussions with technical staff at Crucible Service, manufacturers of the particle tool steels(CPM steels). The hardness definition is Crucible's and I think I quoted it accurately. I didn't question it because it seemed to make sense that to dent something it had to be deformed.

I think you would be interested in going to their web site and seeing how they make the particle steels which enables difficult to alloy elements like vanadium to be be added with as small as a few micron grain size. We have some nice electron microscope pictures of the grain structure of 3V and there is no grain failure at the edge. The vanadium is about 3 microns.

I have a number of tools that are hardness of 60-62 and there is a world of difference in their edge performance and failure modes. The Sorby chisel edge is readily destroyed when it is used for chopping cuts (see chisel testing post pictures of about 9 months ago) and it is the easiest of these tools to sharpen(abrade). The edge failure of M2 at this hardness is greatly different than CPM 3V or Two Cherries. The abrasion resistance of CPM 3V is different from M2. It was these kinds of observations that led me to learn more about steel properties and conclude that hardness alone does not begin to predict performance of an edged tool and most sprprisingly it only somewhat correlates with wear resistance. Hence, the need to begin to learn about other factors such as toughness and wear. It took a while to dig out the definitions so I thought I could save other interested parties the trouble of doing it.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#6

I thought it was $75...

Roger Nixon

>Well said, Scott. I love reading all the technical stuff but as a practical matter, my techniques need improving way more than my tools do.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#7

Re: A little perspective...

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I disagree with your premise that there is no practical difference among the commonly used steels used for edged tools. When there are huge differences in factors such as wear and toughness why would it not be reasonable to imagine that there would be differences in edged tool performance? The data to support my position can be found in our chisel testing posts of about 9 months ago on this forum as well as the pictures by Brent Beach referenced in last weeks sharpening post.

You won't find many turners still using carbon steel tools and you will find many using the most modern particle steels that provide a better edge and tool life. Why is it not reasonable to expect similar improvements in other edged tool performance? Knife makers have plowed this same ground, with the same opinions and results.

Where possible I make my own tools. The cost difference between carbon steel and the most modern alloy steel is insignificnat for a chisel, or even a big lathe skew. So, I try to find and take advantage of enhanced performance.

Perhaps others that build things with 18th century techniques may want to use similarly classic tools and that I can understand and appreciate. But they should not deny the possibility that improved technology exists for those wanting to take advantage of it.

As far as the novices being suckered into spending more than necessary for a supposedly better steel or steel treatment, that certainly is a valid point. It was refreshing to see Lee Valley's published view of cryo treating, which by the way, agrees with prevailing view I have encountered at the steel companies. And I have seen no data to suggest that an A2 chisel should perform any better than a cherished Sawn or whatever.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#8

Info is useful for toolmaking

Steve Elliott

>While knowledge of metallurgy may be intellectual overkill for a typical woodworker, it is useful for making your own tools. I'm satisfied with the chisels I can buy, either old Western ones or new Japanese ones, but I'm not satisfied with the plane blades on the market. Their edge qualities are good enough, but I'm looking for a blade that will exactly fit an older infill plane, which means custom width and just the right thickness.

With all the time it takes for me to hacksaw, bore, file, and lap a piece of steel for a custom blade, I want to know that it will have the right edge qualities after heat treatment. That's where the information Bill Tindall cites is important. My first custom blade has turned out to be the best-performing blade I own, beating out A2 blades by two manufacturers and Holtey's S53. It's also better than the older laminated blades typical of infill planes.

I make my living as a cabinetmaker and use power tools whenever possible. Planes are my hobby, and I allow my curiosity to lead me into whatever arcane field I find interesting. Knowing about steel properties has turned out to be useful in making planes work better.

As to the cost of exotic steels, a blade I make myself is less expensive than comparable ones I might buy. The work I do to make it is part of the fun.

Re: steel for tools, reading the tables

#9

Just sitting in the background listening

Andrew F in Australia

>And you've both covered the metallurgy well. If I was to add anything it would only be to cover exceptions.

BTW - Toughness = ability to absorb impact. In a lab, it's measured by snapping standard sized, notched specimens with a big swinging hammer (looks like an oil derrick) and seeing how far the hammer travels after it breaks through - if the material didn't absorb much energy as it broke, the hammer travels a long way.

Brittle materials (eg: Ceramic) are hard but not tough, very ductile materials are soft but not tough (eg: lead, silicon rubber). The middle ground (something that stretches a fair way before breaking but needs a fair bit of force to make it stretch) gives toughness.

Metallurgy remains a black art to a large extent.

Cheers,

Andrew

(Dual trade Metallurgist and Cabinetmaker)

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