LN Handplane - bench vs. block

Re: LN Handplane - bench vs. block

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Hi Greg,

You didn't invite my response (I'm no expert) but I'll chime in anyway. You're right that the block plane is a multi purpose plane. However, I've never considered it a Jack-of -all-trades, (pun intended). You might answer your own question should you try and smooth a 6' X 3' table top with your LA block plane, face one side of a 4/4 board, joint one edge of the same board, etc. ;>)

Now, if your style of wwking is such that the block plane serves all your needs then your shout of "Eureka" is appropriate.....for you. Will one chisel suffice? One saw? Yes, of course one of anything will suffice if that's all you have and you have the time and ingenuity to make it so. My one tool, if I could only have one, would not be a plane, saw, or chisel...it would be a knife; a large Bowie style. Welcome!

What about lateral adjustment with LN low angles?

Russell Seaton

>I like having lateral adjustment on my planes. Lie Nielsen does not offer this very nice option. I believe Lee Valley has it on its low angle smoother and probably will on its soon to be debuted low angle jack plane.

Why would

Dan Donaldson

>Anyone want to flame you;-) If it works for you, then it is the right thing to do. There are places where a bigger plane than a block might be better, but LV, for one, also makes a low angle larger plane. I am not enough of an expert to know what the advantages vs disadvantages are for a Low Angle with several blade bevel angles and a regular bench plane.

what's a pinko?

Jack from Maine

>

Re: what's a pinko?

Patrick M. Gibbons, Houston, TX

>My, my, my, Jack. You must be too young to know. A pinko is a Communist sympathiser and was a label used often by the far right to brand someone as being unsavory, and therefore not worthy of respect, or having any validity to their opinions. Haven't heard the term used much at all in the last 15 or so years. Not sure what perjoritives Rush and his cronies are using these days other than PC.

Re: LN Handplane - bench vs. block

Greg Sloop

>Well, I think you and a few others are confused by my terminology.

Technically (I think) all hand planes without a "frog" are block planes. (The iron rests on the base at a fairly low angle to the sole, bevel up.)

The size of block planes, at least from LN is wide. The 7 1/2 jointer is 22 inches long, and the Jack I have is 14 IIRC.

So, I can flatten and remove cup etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is this. Block planes are generally easier to master, handier to close the mouth on, the blade angle is easily adjustable with miltiple blades.

Am I missing some real awesome feature on a bench plane that the block plane doesn't do easily. (The only potential is lateral adjustment, but I've got a smallish amount of that too - just not as much.)

Thanks for the reply though.

As for a knife - a machette would be my pick!

Cheers,

Greg

Re: What about lateral adjustment with LN low angl

Greg Sloop

>The LN does have *some* lateral adjustment, but not huge. I've not seen the LV ones, perhaps they are better.

(But I can't really think of a situation where I'd use more lateral adjust than I already have. I'm sure it's my lack of exp. that makes me say this, but humor me and tell me when I might use it.)

Cheers,

Greg

Re: Why would

Greg Sloop

>I posted this elsewhere, but I'm be generic by saying "Block" I have both a 6" long and a 14" long. The 14" jack is basically the same size as the #5 Stanley bench. The only difference is no frog, bevel up bedded at 12 deg.

Thanks,

Greg

Re: what's a pinko?

milanuk

>Man, he'd have to be *really* young, then. I'm 30 and grew up in rural BFE and I've heard of the term. Of course, somethings don't die out like they should out in the boonies ;)

Monte

Re: what's a pinko?

Matthew J D'Avella, Kona HI

>I only ever heard that word on "All in the Family"

Re: what's a pinko?

Jack from Maine

>Actualy I'm 52 and I remember hearing the term used alot. Just never knew what they were talkin about.How'd they come up with it? What exactly is pink?(or which one is Pink?)---Jack

FYI - Pinko (a definition)

Dave (Arlington, VA)

>Summary:- pinko - Bolshevik, bolshie, Marxist, red

Detailed description:-

1 Dictionary Entries found

---------------------------

1) n :emotionally charged terms used to refer to extreme radicals or revolutionaries

- www.realdictionary.com

Re: Have a cigar my boy your going to go far!

Ernie Miller Topeka

>

Re: LN Handplane - bench vs. block

Ernie Miller Topeka

>After resding all of the responses I think there is a slight differance in terminology at work here. Most people consider a block plane a small one handed plane. where you consider any plane with out a removable frog a block plane. Also most people consider a plane with a tote to be a bench plane and you don't take that into consideration at all. So all in all I would say you are right on par with a growing number of people here who like low angle planes. I not owning any low angle planes other than a 60 1/2 have not came to that conclusion yet even though it might be the right one. Just to make sure that is your true fealing how about giving a knight or shepard high angle smoother a try some time when you are experancing tear out on a nasty peice of wood. I have close to 100 planes and still looking for more haven't found the one be all plane. but I do have my favorites. Welcome to the board I don't think you can go wrong with an LN plane.

Re: Where to find flat T-nuts?

Monte Milanuk

>Good question. Not entirely sure where the color referene comes from. That's one of those things that always intrigues me to a degree, the origin of words and sayings in everyday language (etymology). It's amazing how things either pop up out of no where, or else mutate almost unrecognizably from their origin.

Monte

I always assumed Pinko>>>

chad pearson

>was derived from the fact that red represented the communists and while the sympethizer you were degrading wasn't a full communist s/he did have a touch of red in him/her and was thus Pink.

Me Too!

Bob Nelson

>

bevel down vs bevel up...nomenclature

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I find it more useful to refer to planes as bevel down (i.e., the more traditional bench plane) vs bevel up (i.e, the more traditional block plane). There are such a wide variety of styles of bevel down planes that even the bench designation is ambigous and restrictive. Same goes for the block plane nomenclature with bevel up planes. Even more confusing is the LA designation for bevel up planes, for as has been shown in this thread, it is easy to configure a bevel up plane for much higher angles than is found on the usual bevel down plane.

So overall, I go for [high, standard or low angle] [bevel up, or bevel down], [smoother, jack, shoulder, etc]. I feel this is a lot more informative and succint method of identification.

Re: what's a pinko?

Ed Falis

>Pat said:

"...Not sure what perjoritives Rush and his cronies are using these days other than PC. "

Why "liberal", of course ;-)

- Ed

Re: bevel down vs bevel up...nomenclature

Greg Sloop

>Thanks...

You said it better than I.

So, in short, why not a LN bevel up vs. LN (standard) bevel down w/ a frog.

I really like the Lie-Nielson stuff, so I'm primarily asking about their planes. I'm not aware of anyone else making these two classes of planes at these prices.

BTW, I've used a #5 and don't see much difference. Perhaps a bit of difference in heft/mass, but they seem to plane pretty similar. I, however, didn't get a chance to try them both on the QS Sycamore, so I'm not sure how well the #5 would cut that difficult wood - the 62 @ 60 deg did great.

Thanks for the clairification though.

Greg

Re: back to the planes

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Well, I'm going to get myself in trouble again, but here's a teaser.

One of the planes is my someday to be written up plane study was a bevel up smoother used with a number of blades of different angles. The study includes a lot of other planes including a cast iron bevel up plane (of different effective cutting angles established via back bevels), infills, woodies, etc. Let's just say for now that while the bevel up smoother configured for high effective cutting angles aquited itself very well, and its performance was very notable with reference to its cast iron bevel down counterpart. I will be reporting on this in detail when I get the study fully written up.

I will also tease that I have used a prototype of a large bevel up plane configured to achieve an approximately 65 degree effective cutting angle (not unlike yours). Though I had time only to explore its performance on heavily figured cocobolo (which is one of the most difficult woods to plane without minor tearout) I found it to provide spectacular performance exceeded only by a $2400 custom infill.

So yes, I think you are making some very good observations which are consistent with the findings I have achieved more formally when evaluating smoothers of various effective cutting angles.

As for bevel down planes, keep in mind that for much of woodworking over history, even smoothers were often used to take thick shavings in soft woods. A lot of the "features" of bevel down "bench" planes were developed to deal with those uses. I suspect too, that bevel down designs lent themselves better to wooden bodies (as they still do), and likely a lot of later planes carried forward those traditions without thought.

Yup

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>The other phrase around in the 1950's was "fellow traveler," a process of guilt by association.

Re: bevel down vs bevel up...nomenclature

Ernie Miller Topeka

>At least every one is on the same thought process as to what we are talking about. Not having any of them fancy planes I will sit gack and listen. Lynn when is this book you are wrighting commingout? Will it be posted here or on Roger's site? What other secret projects are you working on?

Re: bevel down vs bevel up...nomenclature

Tony Z.

>Ernie--where is this "Roger's site" you are referring to? I need more things to occupy my time I spend during my 8 hours in h _ ll each day!