metal vs wood jointer

Go with the LN #7

will tracey

>Go with the LN #7. You want mass with a jointer plane, and wood is just not going to give you the authority behind the cut that you really need, nor will wood stay as flat as iron. I have the LN #7 with a high angle frog, and it does a great job on both tricky and normal grain. Its the first plane I grab for many jobs. The bedrock format lets you set the tool up for both rough and fine work, something you with have to compromise on with a wooden plane. With LN's thick chip-breaker you can really stiffen the cutter and close up the mouth. I have it set somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1/64th of an inch and it leaves a surface as good as my best smoother. This plane will prove its value.

Re: metal vs wood jointer

Scott Post

>I prefer a wooden jointer. Metal jointers are fine for edge work but for face jointing you don't want to be lugging around a big hunk of cast iron - too darned much work.

Re: Go with the LN #7

Steve knight

>a jointer is a tool I have not desided if it needs extra weight or not. I guess it depends on how thick of shavings you want out of it. like every other aspect of planing it depends on what your doing.

but a wooden plane can have as much or more mass then a metal plane and still be slicker. I have made may 9# jointers though 8# is more common. I never found that they needed a super tight mouth to work well most of the time.

You'll have both

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>eventually, I will predict. I would start with the metal one, and the LN7 is a great choice. It's a shorter learning curve--both on use and maintenance--and you'll never regret it.

However, most people are into handtools for a certain kind of satisfaction and pleasure. And in that regard, on a scale of 1 to 10, wooden jointers score an '11'. I won't speak to tropical woods, but for northern forest hardwoods, the woodie jointer has plenty of mass, provided you can sharpen. Will woodies move? Yes, it's a block of wood. It will move. Mine move very little, because they're in some degree of climate control. I check them from time to time and true them to a surface plate I would guess every 3 to 4 months. Very small adjustments. But your baseline assumption has to be that you will be doing this maintenance, which is another skill set, and you need a reference surface to do it on. Hammer adjusting is another skill set. And more fun tools.

So start with metal, but the woodie bug will bite you sooner or later, I think.

Wiley

Go with the Knight

Brad Sisk

>If my house were on fire and I could carry five things out with me- my Knight razee jointer (padouk) would be one of them! Seriously though, I've always been enamored with Lie Nielsens, Cliftons and their shiny high-end brethren. I would however, put the Knight planes right up there as far as quality and even a step as far as the beauty of the actual tool (personal preference I guess). Sure, there is a learning curve with a wooden plane (no more than that of bailey style adjustments) and the very, very occassional flattening of the bottom (easy to do if you're set up for flattening waterstones). But I offer you this response based on the fact that I was in your "shoes" a while back and decided on the Knight versus a LN (due to that choice, I've since purchased a Knight smoother and small smoother I'm using as a block plane). For the money, its a no-brainer. But even money aside, I would still choose the Knight. (Also, where else can you order from the President, CFO and craftsman himself!- The best customer service.)

Re: metal vs wood jointer

paul womack

>...particularly when it comes to a jointer where absolute flatness is a must...

There's 2 viewpoints on that :-)

BugBear

Either will do

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I have both a very well tuned Stanley #7 with a Japanese laminated blade at 45 degrees and a HNT Gordon Try Plane with a 1/4" blade at 60 degrees (to which I would equate Steve's Razee for the purposes of your decision).

The #7 is capable of a wide range of cuts as you can adjust the size of the mouth. The Gordon has a fixed mouth.

The weight and momentum of the #7 helps it cope with our tough Aussie timber. The surface is good but not in the class of the Gordon, which produces finer, almost finished cuts. It is like a very long smoother.

The Gordon is not in any way limited by its light weight. In fact, it is considerably less fatiguing to use, and in the end is the one I turn to first. It is such a superbly balanced plane, with a thick and stiff blade capable of taking a fine edge, that weight does not come into the equation. A bit like the finesse of a finely tuned old Porsche verses the muscle of a V8 supercar.

If I were buying just one and lived in the States, I'd speak very nicely to Steve.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: metal vs wood jointer

Christof Hartge

>Hello Mathurin,

I vote for a wooden jointer, although to give truth honour, you won't see a difference in the results of work between a wooden or a metal jointer.

The main question is: What do you want your jointer for? There three main tasks: 1. Edge jointing. 2. Surface jointing 3. Surface smoothing.

If you want one jointer for all three tasks take short jointer, that is comparable to metal, no 7. Specifically the Ulmia short jointer with 50� pitch is a good one. Also you won't do wrong with the ECE short jointer and a C&W.

The argument of flatness: As Wiley pointed out. A good jointer moves very little. I scrape them every sixth months. The amount of wood taken away measures in hundreth of a millimeter.

Over the last time I specialised my wooden jointers and made good experiences:

1. edge jointing

Requirements: Lenght 24" or even more, Pitch 45� or lower, mouth opening: doesn't matter much. Blade shape: dependent on edge technique straight or slightly rounded.

Here is my ECE jointer in action, blade straight: http://www.woodworking.de/schaerfprojekt/brett1-3.html.

2. surface jointing

With surface jointing I mean the jointing after the Scrub Plane has done his work. This plane is also called Try-plane.

Requirements: Lenght: around 18", blade shape: rounded, Pitch 45�, mouth opening: wide.

3. Big surface smoothing

Requirements: Lenght: around 20'', Pitch 50�, mouth opening: fine, blade shape: very slightly rounded. Here the Ulmia short jointer in action:

http://www.woodworking.de/schaerfprojekt/brett1-2.html.

Now to the argument of mass: If you want to do fine work as edge jointing, the shave will enroll itself with nearly no effort, or something is wrong. If you do heavy work with a try-plane, you'll be after half an hour work gratefull vor every spare weight, you won't have to give momentum.

Greetings, Christof.

Re: Go with the LN #7

Scott Post

>I don't understand why "mass behind the cut" is a plus for a jointer. A jointer isn't generally taking a heavy shaving - that's a job for a jack or scrub with a heavily cambered iron. I use a jointer is for final leveling of a surface where I'm taking medium to fine shavings. It's effortless. I can't see adding the extra effort of mass to the equation.

Re: metal vs wood jointer

Mathurin Malby

>Thanks for all the great info. The choice is now obviously crystal clear ;-) Seriously, I think there is about a .... 100% chance I will be a customer to Steve Knight at some point or another, and at this point I think I am leaning his way for the jointer. Economically speaking it is a no-brainer like somebody mentioned. I am almost thinking that a wood jointer together with the LV #6 might actually make an ideal pair. Now I have to work a few extra shifts to pay for it all.

My two cents

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Just a few thoughts FWIW:

Jointers aren't typically used for surface work. Jointers' irons must be dead straight to be useful (making joints). Confusing the two long planes causes problems.

The longer the jointer is, the more accurate the result. Depending on your requirements, a 22" (#7) plane may not be long enough. I recommend jointers in excess of 30". Mine is 36" I think any longer and it would be unwieldy.

Mass is the jointers enemy. You want as light a plane as possible. The problem is snipe. Hand tool snipe is real.

My advice:

1) Get a wooden jointer and use it only for joinery. Get the longest darn plane you can get.

2) Learn proper technique/familiarize yourself with your new tool by match planing. Only then, (when you assemble to two boards edge to edge)will you know what you are doing right and wrong. For example: I find I have to remove my front hand at the finish and bare down pretty hard on it at the beginning to get a straight cut.

3) Since sole straightness is pretty important for your jointer, make sure:

a) the maker chooses good straight QS stock

b) you store it in as near constant humidity as possible. If Steve Knight or C&W are making it, I'd inform them of your shop's humidity, and ask that they they mimic that condition during construction or final tuning. If they can't or won't, I'd suggest asking them to let you do the final sole lapping yourself. If the plane isn't beech it may take some time to stop moving after delivery.

I need to take some more measurements, but it seems to me the interior of my toolchest is different (more humid) than the shop. It may also be more stable, and I'm not sure why. (I store my jointer plus bench planes under my bench so it doesn't help me in this way, but you could try it)

Adam

Get the Knight.

John K in Hastings, MN

>Personally, I like the wooden planes better than the metal ones. Part is aesthetics, part is feel. I just like the way they fit in my hands and how they feel over the wood.

The Knight planes are great. There are also a number of older planes out on E*ay and such. Recently at a used tool meet I got an Ulmia 24" wood jointer for $40. The Knight is under $200, the L-N is more than double that. Either way, if you don't like it you can resell it for almost all you paid for it.

John

Terrific article!

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hello Christof,

Great to hear from old friends. From the looks of that article on 'Taming the Board', you've been very busy! It's beautifully illustrated. Many of us are glad to hear that three jointers/trying planes are not too many.

I spoke with C&W today and they're gonna help me catch up.

Wiley

Thanks. Got it. Garrett, Editor A&R

Garrett in Victoria BC CA

>

Re: My two cents

Eric Lund

>I'm pretty sure Steve Knight lives in the Portland area. Humidity is a way of life there (5 years in Puyallup, WA).

Re: My two cents

Steve knight

>yep it is high here in the winter not in the summer. my shop does nto have a problem with it since it is underground. but I still have to be carefull the wood is fully acclimized.

Re: metal vs wood jointer

Robert Weber

>Hey, Cristof,

Great pictures. I'd sure love to see that article in English. Any chance of that?

Rob in Peoria (centralish USA)

Re: metal vs wood jointer

Sean Evoy in Ottawa

>Robert,

You can go to Google, select "language tools", and ask for a tranlation of the webpage. It's actually a hoot to see some fo the translations that come out of it, but it will give you something that approximates English.