I guess that Lee Valley's Rip Tooth Dozuki

Re: I guess that Lee Valley's Rip Tooth Dozuki

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Beats me, I might offend someone by giving an answer; so I'll be moderating my responses to say absolutely nothing.

Pam

Re: Pam

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I love your responses; perhaps you could write them up and post them just for me?

Geez, Pam...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>Everything you say always offends me; don't let that stop you now...

re:

glh of Nashville, TN

>Christopher,

I'll just have to call it the LV dovetail saw. By the way, I see Pam's view on the freedom of speech issue and I see Ellis's. I work in an area where problems like this come up daily (not a journalist). Today, we have not just be concerned with the libel/slander issues but also what is acceptable to individuals (e.g. conservatives/liberals, men/women, races, Christian/non-Christian, etc...). We are slowly but surely giving up our rights to speech and that's pretty much the same as giving away a right to an opinion. The over-used parable of boiling a frog applies. In a few years we'll realize what we have given up, perhaps. If we had been forced to give it up all at one time, we would have fought hard to keep it.

Re: I guess that Lee Valley's Rip Tooth Dozuki

Rob Lee

>Hi Christopher -

This is a non-traditional saw - I'm not sure the manufacturer has a "name" for it, or if there's even an historical comparator...

The saw, by any other name, will still cut as sweetly...

:)

Cheers -

Rob

Re: re:

Dan Donaldson

>Please not that this is just my opinion and take it for what it is worth;-)

I don't see any free speech issues here, just a need for common courtesy. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion or disagreeing with someone, nor with talking about problems had with vendors or advertisers. I think that the way it is done makes all of the difference. I can disagree with someone by saying "I disagree because..." without making any personal attacks on the person. I can do the same thing with a vendor by stating that "I have/had this problem.... or I don't agree with a name because..., or something like that.) without going off on a major rant about the basic integrity of the company/person or saying that they are jerks or worse. Obviously, this is a Woodworking board and as such, it is best to stay away from politics and religion, but not discussing these things here is not really a free speech issue, but just helps keep things civil. There are a lot of people that post here that have views that appear from their posts to be significantly different from mine, but I don't let that stop me from being virtual friends and fellow woodworkers. Keeping things basically on a woodworking theme lets everyone give advice, disagree civilly sometimes and just enjoy themselves.

Again, this is just my personal opinion and has nothing to do with WC policies etc..

Re: I guess that Lee Valley's Rip Tooth Dozuki

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Rob, I didn't intend to hint that anything was wrong with LV and/or your rip dovetail saw. I haven't used it, so don't know, would assume that it's of typical LV high quality. As to whether any comment about the quality of a given company means anything here anymore, I don't know, we can only praise.

Pam

Re: I guess that Lee Valley's Rip Tooth Dozuki

Rob Lee

>Hi Pam -

No worries - I sure didn't read your post that way.

There seems to be an undercurrent to this thread that I'm missing....

Perhaps my obtuse "a rose by any other name" reference was a bit TOO obtuse...

Cheers -

Rob

Well the only reason I brought up...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>the name is that, in a book I just bought from Woodcraft, The Care and Use of Japanese Woodworking Tools, by Kip Mesirow, mentions it.

The book is found here:

Japanese Hand Saws And Accessories

Anyway, I bought a replacement blade for my "Z" saw from Woodcraft and I decided to buy that book as well. I read it last night. He had a section on the different types of saws and lists the types including Ryobas, Dozukis, etc.

He describes a Dozuki as a fine toothed saw used for joinery and mentions that it is a crosscut saw. Then he mentions specifically that a Hozohiki is just like a Dozuki except that it has a rip tooth. He even has a drawings of the different types.

The book is sparse and seems to be more of a detailed pamphlet on Japanese hand tool technology more than anything else. He covers saws, planes, marking gauges, waterstones, knives, and other items.Also, it is dated (published in 1982 IIRC) so perhaps the name, Hozohiki, is dated or has fallen out of use?

I don't know anymore than that about the subject and was just curious...

Oh and Rob,...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I do have one of the Rip Tooth saws now... it came in last last week.

:)

I was just trying to better understand Japanese hand tools in general.

Re: That clears things up a little

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I read the post and thought that it was a name that you made up and was unhappy with the saw. See what my ignorance can do to me?

Later tonight...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I might try to provide more info from the book on this point.

Here's another reference to it... *LINK*

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>this time from a Japanese Tool maker...


Nakaya Takijirou Saws

Re: Well the only reason I brought up...

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Christopher,

You're in good company. Odate, on p. 47 of his book, identifies it as a hosobiki, and also defines 'dozuki' as a cross-cut saw. I have noticed that some knowledgeable folks use the ending 'hiki' and others use 'biki'.

However, in my experience, you won't go wrong referring to the saw as a 'rip dozuki', cause that's what just about everybody does.

Wiley

re

glh of Nashville, TN

>It seems WC doesn't want too much said in a negative way about businesses or individuals, such as company x's routers are a bunch of junk or unsafe.My point was not to criticize WC policies because I understand

that one has to be leary of lawsuits by those whose products are caste in a negative light. This threat of a suit is real and an individual would be a foolish to ignore it. If WC were sued over an issue like this, it would be costly either way. You want to avoid a suit so therefore you want to avoid any type of action that is likely to bring one. I'm simply saying that in an enviroment like that which we have today (not just at WC but anywhere), people avoid expressing their true opinions out of fear of lawsuits, and the effect of this is similar in many respects to that of an outright restriction on speech.

Look at Oprhan (figuratively speaking), she was sued by cattle farmers over criticism of the beef industry. She won the suit but it costs her a lot of money. Others can't afford to express their opinions in similar way.

In no way did I intend my comment to be a criticism of WC, and I apologize if it was interpreted that way.

Re: re

Dan Donaldson

>I didn't take it that way. I was just saying that I don't see any problem, even in today's litiguous society with telling about problems that you have with a product or service. It is the delivery method that matters. (at least to me.;-)

ADMIN

Ted Owen, Moderator

>It seems WC doesn't want too much said in a negative way about businesses or individuals, such as company x's routers are a bunch of junk or unsafe.

WC has no such policy. If you've had a negative experience with a business or individual, please feel free to discuss it. Personally, I'd want to know that company x's routers are junk or unsafe.

Just don't commit libel or slander, please.

Best, Ted

Re: Well the only reason I brought up...

chiba

>I've not heard "hosobiki", but it sounds like a contraction to me, from "hosoi hikinokogiri", meaning "thin pull saw". This type of contraction, often using the first part of words (often the first Kanji), is quite a common thing in Japanese. The -hiki and -biki is also not unusual; for a noun, -h*** endings often turn into -b***.

keep this up..

Jack from Maine

>..and we're all gonna learn Japanese just from reading these forums.---Jack

Re: keep this up..

chiba

>"Seven Years in Japan" as of this month. Hey, that sounds like a good movie!

Re: Posting problems

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I think it might be best when you have a problem with something to be pretty specific about it. If you were to say " My plane iron does not hold an edge very well due to being soft metal", that would be criticism. If you were to say "My plane iron is a piece of crap and they did it on purpose to scam me" that would be libel, if I understand correctly what is trying ot be said here.

Re: ADMIN

glh

>Ted,

If that's your policy, I admire it. I had based my comment on a thread of few days ago where a corporation was being criticized for moving over seas or closing down a local plant.

I teach at a university and we are very careful to try to avoid discrimination suits and libel/slander suits. The policies are designed to avoid suits that we could most likely win, such as posting grades. For example, we run a risk of law suits when grades or posted. The idea is that someone can figure out what someone else made and that someone has a legal right to have that grade keep confidential, or so the courts have ruled. We tried posting by SSN, randomly generated lasted 4-digits of SSN, randomly assigned student numbers, posting by any of the aforementioned but with signed permission of student.

Bottom line is each fall in faculty orientation our lawyer comes in to advise us on legal issues. Each year a question comes up about posting grades, along with several other issues, his advice for the past 10 or so years is to simply not post grades and don't give out grades over the phone and in no circumstance give the grade to anyone other than the student (includes parents). We also are now told to not email grades.

Now, some of this stuff is actually legal under the law, however, the purpose of his recommendation (which really amounts to policy) is to avoid any action that could possibly led to a lawsuit. This is reasonable given that suits are extremely expensive, they damage reputation, and who knows who will actually win.

We err on the side of caution and don't do things like post grades even in situations where it seems to be consistent with court decisions. The reason: today many lawyers are willing to test the boundaries of those decisions and bring suit. This has happened to us on a few unpublicized occasions where we have settled out of court. It was less expensive and avoided the publicity. Not a bad institutional decision, however, in the mean time about 99% of the students who would like to know their grades earlier can't get them even though there is nothing inherently illegal so long as grades are keep confidential. (As a side note, over the past year or so this has changed, students now get their grades over the computer through the university's software system.) I could go on with this in several other areas including slander/libel laws where we wisely err on the side of caution. One thing for sure. If any of you hire college graduates based on letters of recommendation, you need to know that I can't imagine any professor would ever write a negative recommendation. If I can't give the highest recommendations across the board, I simply tell the student I don't have time and he/she needs to find someone else. Everyone I know does the same thing, or at least says so. It is very easy to get sued over stuff like this.

I would say that this sort of thing probably filters into product evaluations in ww mags also. I'd say these looked at very carefully by someone with legal experience before they are published. If they're not, they should be. The threat of a lawsuit should not be taken lightly these days because if there is a mere possibility that something might be used as a basis for libel, the mag needs to think carefully before publishing. It's natural to err on the side of caution. The statutes in these areas really haven't changed over the years, but courts' interpretations change frequently. Consequently, the laws are ambiguous.

WC has every right to regulate speech on this website. Such regulation doesn't violate freedom of speech in the legal sense since it's a private self-regulation. I'm glad you do. I would come here if I thought I would be threaten or overly ridiculed for my questions and comments. Things should be kept polite. I believe posters are generally able to post their opinions on whatever ww topic they want. The case I referred was a caution (not restriction) of an criticism of a corporation, not a person. My point was that in issuing this caution I assumed you were doing so based on, not only politeness, but also a believe that continuation of that string could possible be used as basis for a lawsuit.

As far as the router quality/safety issue, I was just using that as an example, a bad one at that, because those issues are discussed here. I think all power routers are unsafe, not just any particular make. However, if there was one or two makes of routers that were continuely downgraded on this website, and if those makers could show their businesses were hurt by those criticisms and that there was at least some exaggerations of the claims (and there usually always is), then there would most likely be grounds for a suit, just like Oprha in the beef case. In most places, it's the threat of lawsuit that regulates opinions and speech these days, not so much whether that speech is libel or slander, because it's the suit that is to be avoided regardless of the potential merits of the suit.

Re: keep this up..

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>Do I take it correctly that you live in Chiba prefecture?

Re: keep this up..

chiba

>Yup, that's right. Where's the air's so pure, on a clear day you can see for... yards. (I like it really)