Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Hand Cut Dovetails
sroxberg
>Well, I watched the Cosman video, this looks easy. Bought a nice saw, sharpened the chisels and went to work.
They are terrible. They fall apart.
So, I just used some pine 1 x material I had laying around. I did make sure it was squared up nicely. It can't be me or my form, so is there an easier wood to learn on?
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Jim Stafford in GA
>You can do it! There are two basic saw cuts that you need to make and the saw cuts tend to be the most critical. I'd suggest that you use a wood like poplar and draw several/many of the two basic cuts - the pin cut straight down the side and angled across the top and the tail cut straight across the top and angled down the sides. Draw about 4 per inch across the end of the piece. Then practice/practice until you can cut down beside each line.
Woodworking is practicing a lot.
Good luck.
Jim in GA
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Wiley Horne--Glendora CA
>The poplar is a good idea. And Jim's practice session is the most important thing.
One specific thing I would suggest concerns the second board you cut--the one you have transferred marks onto from the first board. The saw blade has to be entirely in the waste for that joint to fit tightly. I don't mean saw fat and pare back. But the minute the saw blade slips down into your knife line, the joint is going to be loose. This can happen very easily. I haven't seen Rob's tape, but would suggest the following if the problem persists: Once you have transferred the marks by knife, take a fine pencil (like 0.5mm) and light up the knife line. When you saw, there should be some pencil line left after sawing, since the pencil is on both margins of the knife line--the saw should only take the pencil on the waste side of the knife cut.
Of course, if Rob suggests something else to deal with this issue, then stay with the system. Being aware of the problem is the main thing, and that's why I went into the detail.
Wiley
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Dan Donaldson
>Firmly tongue in cheek;-)
Let's see, a wood to learn on that won't fall apart. Hmmmmm... How about cocobolo;-) (If by some chance you decide to actually do that someday, let me know as I would like to watch)
Seriously, I agree that poplar is a good wood to practice on. For the first few you do you might also want to use 1/2 rather than 3/4. It is a bit easier to deal with the thinner wood and it helps to get some positive results early. Leave the itty bitty pins and thicker, harder wood for later. DAMHIKT.
Also agree that the saw is the trick. Take a board and practice cutting to a line, leaving half of it as suggested. Do this a bunch of times, cut off the end of the board and do it again. When you can saw to the line every time, you will be making great dovetails.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails *LINK*
Rolf Schmid
>There is an alternative: use a dovetail guide to guide your saw. As I have no time for a lot of practice, I made a guide for myself and the results and the speed is very good. Perhaps that is not the "ART" of cabinetbuilding...
regards from Germany
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Scott in Douglassville, PA
>My first few were in sassafras I had lying around, and went well. Tried some scrap walnut after that - no luck. Went to cherry and oak - much better.
Here's what my (astoundlingly limited) experience says: Get some decent results in a 'starter' wood, then start using materials that you'd normally be using for projects. There was a huge difference between fitting in sassafras and oak. I actually felt good about myself after the sassafras; the oak made my shortcuts very apparent. I don't ever intend to build a dovetailed case of sassafras, so knowing how to do the work properly, in a wood I'm likely to use, seems important. Master the skills in something higher on the curve, and those lower woods will be simple. But get some decent results first, to give you some incentive.
Also, I spent several weeks doing nothing but practicing sawing. Both directions, vertically, to a line, either side of a line. Made all the difference.
Unfortunately, for me, it's a skill I need to keep up, so I've got a learning curve in front of me again in a few weeks...
Scott, who hasn't picked up a saw in a month
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
sroxberg
>Nice idea on darkening up the knife lines. I was having problems seeing them in the end grain.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
sroxberg
>Thanks for the resonses. I hadn't thought of practicing a bunch of saw cuts, it actually makes lots of sense. Well I'll try again to night. My only disappointment is not getting even close on the first one.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
CBT
>I am only about a week ahead of you in terms of practice. I experienced exactly what you did. After many practice cuts my performance has improved...it's not great but no longer embarrassing. I am using poplar FWIW. I am now trying half blind dovetails. They are going much better than expected. I can see it starting to come together. I read a quote from on of the woodworking schools (don't recall which one) that stated there are 40 million woodworkers and only 5% know how to hand cut dovetails. That was inspiring to me.
Curtis
Practice...
Scott in Douglassville, PA
>The first one I tried, with no layout or practice, wasn't a dovetail. S'posed to be, but not sure what it was. Someone in the know gave me the advice to do nothing but saw for a while, a skill which, though easy to grasp isn't necessarily innate. I did that - whenever I had three minutes, I'd clamp up a board, scribe some lines, and get after it. Had no projects going, so I'd take 45 minutes or an hour here and there and just saw. Metallica and ELO work surprisingly well as background for me. You'll find yourself learning to work in a rhythm, almost a cadence. When I went back to trying dovetails, the difference was astounding.
Don't be disappointed yet - you'll feel more pride than you thought possible the first time you seat the joint with just the right amount of pressure.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
charles
>Buy some FAS Poplar and keep practicing.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Ernie Miller Topeka
>Use popular it is close to the nicest wood to chop DT's in What size drawers are you making? how many? Let me know and I will try and get you some as my local dumpster has been throwing alot of scrap Popular out lately. I try and not bring home to mush wood latly but try and check every day to see what they have. Can't let cherry mahogany and walnut got to the dump no matter how much I have.
cart before the horse
Bill Leffingwell,Hot springs Va
>I tried to cut dovetails before I learned to make a straight cut.Can't be done!!The way I learned was laying out lines(many hundreds)on scrap woods,marking face,top and back of the boards and trying to cut to the line.eventually I could do it most of the time and was able to cut some functional but ugly dovetails.After alot more pactice I was cutting DT's that were acceptable for visible joints.Some still needed minor repairs(a subject all by it's self)Over the years I've gotten better,But I still will make couple dozen pratice cuts on scap from the project before working on a furniture project.I learned to cut on a couple of cheap saws and evetually bought an Adria which does make the job easier and probably would make learning to cut a good bit easier.However no saw will cut decent dovetails if the operator can't cut a straight line.Sott summed it up PRACTICE.
Bill
If it is so popular, why are they throwing it out?
Greg Phillips, Medford, OR
>Just kiddin' wid ya, Ernie!
Cheers,
Greg
Re: If it is so popular, why are they throwing it
Ernie Miller Topeka
>Your just jelous cause your not close enough to come pick some up for free. Mahogany is fun to chop DT's in also.
Re: If it is so popular, why are they throwing it
Jim in Burlington
>There are a few things that have helped me. Drawing the layout lines longer well below the bottom of the score line for practice like Ian Kirby recomended in a magazine article. Loads of light from a few different angles. Make sure you have your hand on the saw properly not choking the life out of it to help develop the rythm of sawing. New saws seem to be a little harder to get the cut started seem they want to dig in and jump. Watch the video between sessions of cutting and you will see the little things as you progress and have some fun.
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails *LINK*
GolfSteve in Calgary
>Cutting dovetails is sooooo easy. :-)
First, you lay out the joint on your first board, and mark which bits you want to remove.
Second, you cut exactly to your marked lines and remove the bits that should be removed.
Third, you mark your second board to exactly match what you've cut out of the first board.
Fourth, you cut exactly to your marked lines and remove the bits that should be removed.
No problem...... :-)
If your joint doesn't fit perfectly it is because you aren't cutting exactly to the lines that you carefully marked out.
Practice your sawing, then practice how you chisel out the waste. If you can't saw a straight line, or can't chop away a straight line, you won't have much success at dovetailing. Before each of my few and far between dovetailing sessions, I spend about 5 minutes sawing angled lines, then spend another 5 minutes sawing vertical lines. Once I've regained a bit of confidence in my sawing, I approach the actual work.
There was a decent thread on another Forum that gave a bunch of Dovetailing tips - I've included a link to my tips below:
Link to some Dovetailing Tips
yes to both above
Ron in Kokomo
>In this internet generation we expect to be skilled and accomplished in 30 minutes..... certainly no more than an hour????
For you new guys, remember this is a craft that apprentices uused to have to practice several years ( 10 and 12 hours a day) before they could claim to be good.
An old timer once told me "I'll bet your 50th dovetail joint is a lot better than your first one"
There is absolutely no short cut.
Ron
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
Steve Kubien
>IIRC, Rob uses a cheapo ball-point pen to darken the lines. Same idea and it works.
Steve Kubien
This should be in the A&R section
Dan Clemront in Burnaby
>I think GolfSteve's procedure on cutting dovetail should be listed on the Articles and Reviews section.
Dan Clermont in Burnaby
Re: Hand Cut Dovetails
William Duffield on the Cohansey
>Darkening the lines is one thing, but fattening them is quite another. The latter strategy doesn't really help. As I get older, the lines become more and more indistinct, but the gaps show up just as well in the finished dovetails. A better strategy is to employ more candlepower to illuminate the marks you have cut. Get one of those cheap Harbour Fright work lights with two 500W halogen bulbs, and turn off your washout fluorescents while you are transferring and cutting and chopping. A pair of cheap reading glasses and sitting closer to your work also helps.
Re: This should be in the A&R section
John Vancil in Silverdale, Wa
>I am not an expert but it seems to me that one should check the saw to see if it cuts straight. The way I check the saw is to use a square and draw a series of lines for rip cuts. Start the cut then grip the saw very lightly and see if it follows the line until your you can cut no deeper. Now make several more test cuts to varify. If you are following the lines great but if your kerfs are curving off to the same side you will need to sharpen your saw or your saw is set improperly and you may be able to correct it with a few passes with a fine stone on the side of the saw on the inside of the kerf. I hope my rambles are of use. John
You can't cut 'em if you can't see 'em
David Barnett
>I couldn't agree more. I could get by with a less than perfect saw, but I won't even try to cut DT's these days without serious prosthetic lighting and optics. I have to build two cabinets for a jeweler's bench; lotsa drawers with lotsa dovetails big and small, but this time I'll be armed with Ott-lites, small halogen spots and surgical loupes, which gives a whole new dimension to splitting the line, let me tell you. Overkill? Maybe. But it's sweet.