I'm planning to buy some white steel Japanese chisels in the near future. After doing some research including reading Lee's sharpening book, I am leaning toward setting up a sharpening system with abrasive paper.
I'm seeking advice on this method specifically regarding a honing guide. I've seen conflicting reports on the use of the Veritas Jig with Japanese chisels. Won't the hollow on the chisel's face interfere with clamping the tool in the jig? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'de hate to purchase something that is inappropriate.
Also, would it be better to draw the blade's bevel horizontally or vertically accross the paper. If the answer is to draw the blade with the long aspect of the bevel parallel to the direction of draw, then is there a honing guide available to accomplish this?
I second Pam's thoughts on both the waterstones and learnig freehand sharpening. There is a sharpening jig made by Richard Kell that does work very well on Japanese chisels up to 1". I recently got one and have found it to be very helpful with reshaping bevels, flattening edges that have rounded, etc.
If you care to answer: where might "near Detroit "be? I live in Dearborn,others that post here frequently are in Canton,Ypsilanti,Sterling Heights,Ann Arbor,Monroe,Toledo.etc we could just about start a SE Michigan/NW Oh guild.
I can use the Veritas jig ok with my Japanese chisels. The fastening screw has a nice broad contact surface. (It's the short blade length on some chisels rather than the hollowed back that makes it tricky for me.) Pam's advice on learning to freehand sharpen is certainly reasonable.
I use my Veritas jig fairly successfully with my Japanese chisels, however my widest is 24mm and so the hollow is easily covered by the broad screw of the Veritas. I use this jig mainly to establsh or repair a rounded over bevel, but it is not the easiest to use with some chisels (my Witherbys for one, since they are too steep in the blade) and wider, squatter Japanese butt chisels may fall into this category too.
I would also advise against sandpaper or diamond stones when sharpening these chisels, and recommend instead, as Pam suggested, that you use waterstones, and that you learn to do so freehand. This is actually a lot easier than you realise. The bevels are broad and it is not so difficult to hold them flat on the stones.
Currently I live in Southfield, but in about 2 or three weeks, I'll be moving about 2 miles to bloomfield Twp. Do you belong to the woodworking guild? I'mm planning to attend the "Wood 2004" exhibit on Mar 14th.
I currently do not belong to any of the guilds.Do you have any further info on the Wood 2004? I hadn't heard of it til now and might be able to squeeze it in.
I have a few waterstones if you want to try before commiting to buy,just email me and we can make arrangements.
>Andy, Ilearned about The Michigan woodworkers Guild from Tom Kearns at a router class he was giving at WC in Stearling Heights. There are approximately 300 members with varied areas of interest. The members are a diverse group and range from toy builders to harpsichord craftsmen. Tom used to be a carpenter and attended the "wood" meeting many years ago and was bitten by the fine woodworking bug.
Wood 2004 is a convention where members bring any recently completed project for display purposes. It sounds like a great way to get ideas from other peoples fine work and talk with them about planning and construction.
I just found a flyer at Rockler in Royal Oak advertizing the show. It's Sunday March 14, Noon till 5PM at the Livonia Senior Center (15218 Farmington Road). Free parking, free admission and door prizes. I'll be bringing my digiral camera.
As for the waterstone offer, sounds great, but I currently don't yet own a single chisel. I'm just getting started in woodworking and will soon be constructing my shop.
>In a store in Japan I found a honing guide that works quite well, and I think it's pretty much identical to the cheap "Vise-Type Honing Guide" sold by Lee Valley. I have problems with the otherwise excellent Veritas guide slipping on narrow chisels, but it's probably self-inflicted as I didn't fit the rubber pad because I've been mainly using it for plane blades. I'd also recommend water stones, by the way. I'll now attempt to post a piccie, but as this is my first post *ever*, please forgive me if I screw it up...
>Thank you all for the informative responses. I guess I'm still a little unclear on why I should use waterstones. They cost more, they can be messy, there's the flatness issues, maintenance, etc. Do all of you recommned them because they are clearly more in keeping with tradition and that's what you're comfortable with, or is there some science to your recommendations?
With the newer 0.5 micron grits available, aren't the issues of abrasive "fineness" a moot point, or am I missing something? Is it because they cut too fast? I thought that was a good thing and could be controlled by simply just taking fewer passes?
>I have tried most of the sharpening methods out there and have settled on the waterstones. There is a bit of maintenance, but it is not onerous and they cut very fast. I prefer them over paper because they don't dig in on forward strokes and don't dub the edges. (although many do not seem to have the problem of dubbing, I seemed to) I do still use a piece of 1500 grit paper on a piece of marble and a strop for touching up gouges when carving, but my main sharpening is with waterstones. I use mainly Shaptons, except that my 8000 is a Norton.
One other thing that I like about the waterstones is that the slurry works to effectively make the stone finer as you go and I seem to get a better finish. YMMV.
>The one thing nice about this forum is that the participants have so much experience we have no need to pretend to have more. I almost never respond with conventional experience just to have something to say, certainly not without saying so.
I'd be interested to hear your reasons for not liking diamond stones. I use a combination of all four DMT stones for coarse work and 3000 and 8000 grit waterstones for honing. It seems to me that, since I'm just polishing out the scratches from the coarser stones anyway it doens't matter all that much what made them. The DMT's cut pretty fast and I like the low maintenance. I also use the extra coarse grit to flatten my water stones although I'm not sure if that will reduce the life of the stones. Sure do like the water stones for the fine work though.
>I usually stay out of sharpening discussions because they are so subjective, but I thought I'd chime in here with two quick cents...
I don't use sandpaper. I know many people who swear by it, so I certainly don't belittle the method, but I'm a waterstone fan myself. I have used waterstones for about the past 25 years. The chisel at left in the photo below will give you an idea of how much sharpening I've done in that time. More recently, I have purchased a couple Shapton waterstones from our sponsor, Japanesetools.com, and I like them even better than my regular waterstones because they cut fast and don't wear as fast.
I like the challenge of producing a fine edge with a "workmanship of risk" vs a "workmanship of certainty." (see David Pye, The Nature and Art of Workmanship) For me, the jigs and holding devices and all the myriad accessories that we are tempted with every day remove us by however many steps from our own skills. By the time you've chucked up your chisel into a honing jig, I could have sharpened my chisel perfectly adequately and returned to the bench. If the stones are a little out of flat, it's short work to rub them together and get back to sharpening. I love the feeling of working with my eyes and hands and head. It's a pretty subtle thing that doesn't appeal to some people.
I'm a perfectionist in a lot of ways, but when it comes to sharpening, I'm more interested in the method that feels right to me.
>I also have problems with the standard Veritas jig on Japanese chisels. Mass produced chisels like the Marples or Stanley have parallel backs and (fronts?). I've never heard of a term for the side opposite from the backs.
Anyways, the Veritas jig uses the "front" as the reference point and has a swivel on the clamp that goes on the back of the blade to put pressure on the front against the jig. But Japanese chisels are usually hand-forged, and getting the front and back parallel is not one of the considerations while forging them. So you do need a vise-type clamp that clamps to the sides of the blade if you are using a jig.
I've found that I use this jig to form a bevel at the desired angle only once, and then free-hand sharpening from that point on. The bevels are so wide on Japanese chisels which makes freehanding them pretty easy.
And I'm also in the waterstone camp. It's just my preference. No detailed Lynn-level scientific analysis behind this decision. ;-)
>Thanks Ellis, that is an inspiring post. Would you mind telling us which series of Shapton stones you've chosen. I see that they have ceramic whetstones. Are all of their stones similar? It's not clear from a quick glance at their website.
>Hey Ellis, I recently found this image. Looks like you've got another 25 left in that chisel. LOL (hope this pic uploads, would be anticlimactic if it didn't)
>To do a preview before you post if you are including a link or a picture. It helps to avoid the "double http://" that is easy to get if you are pasting the url's.(DAMHIKT);-)
Since my experience with various grits of Shaptons has varied considerably, I'm interested in your experience with the 5000x stone. Does it work as well as the 2000? (See my comments in the thread above.)
I'm considering buying the 5000, but don't want the extreme stiction problems I've had with the 8000 stone.
