Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller) *LINK*

Ya know...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>I have a problem with this. "Private to protect my bidders from scammers." Gimme a break - protecting them from other folks alerting them to his scam. Add to it the obvious copyright infringement, and it's not only unethical, but illegal.

I hope Rob contacts this clown. Moreover, is there any way to get him through eBay?

I don't see how....

Ryan Stagg -- Cincinnati

>He's not really doing anything illegal, as far as I can see. It's capitalism at its purist -- if he finds some clown that'll pay $250 for it, more power to him.

It might be sketchy, but I don't see what ebay could do. I remember when playstation 2 came out, there were a couple of people who sold the the ps2 *boxes* for $200-$300. It said clearly in the ad 'playstation 2 box', along with pictures of just the box. As long as the ad doesn't misrepresent the item on sale, let the buyer beware.

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Todd Hughes

>Well certainly nothing wrong with trying to get more for somthing you bought then you paid for it or then it can be bought for in another venue.No one will be forcing anyone to bid on it and potential bidders are certainly free to on thier own research what it could be bought for in other places....I do think you should not be allowed to take photos of sombodys else to use if that is what he did. I will point out that I have had people take photos that I used in my Ebay auctions,[that I took] and use them for thier own reasons and never even contacted me.Probably not much ebay could do about this.....of course he is using a private auction, which is his option, so other people couldn't interfer with the auction and tell the high bidder,[if he ever gets one] "hey slow head you can get this cheaper over here".....Really don't see the beef with his position on Dead Beat bidders. Sure he might want more then you think he should for somthing but if sombody bids they should certainly still pay for it.Sort of like saying it is OK to shop lift if you feel the item is over priced, eh?.......Todd, who doubts if this guy catches any fish but you never know!

IP problem...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>Selling for more than new isn't the problem - he's lifted LV's photos and text for his ad. Big problem...

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

chad pearson

>I don't have any problem with the deadbeat bidders either I just though the indignant tone he was passing along was funny given what he's trying to sucker people into doing.

I wouldn't think this auction was so sleazy except that he's made a point of trying to prey on the unwary by making the bidding private.

VeRO...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>Ebay has a program (the VeRO Program) for the owners of infringed-upon IP. If someone used your intellectual property illegally (without consent or licensing), you can notify eBay through their forms. At the least, they'll pull the auction.

another one

Clay C. in Miami

>He's also listed a set of the LV Yeung Chan chisels, at similar markup ($250 IIRC), also with their stolen pics.

I didn't think that, even without the 'private auction' you could get other bidders' email addresses any more to warn them (you once could, but I think it changed).

In a similar if less offensive vein, I noticed someone selling a pair of the Bessey 2.5 x 12 clamps which go for $12 each on Amazon and were available at our recently celebrated HD sale for $8 each. Bidding is at $31, last time I looked (plus shipping, of course, which would be free at Amazon once you were over $25). Some folks won't learn.

Maybe it's best to look at these sort of auctions as a 'tax on the stupid.' I remember that the PO had some promotion where, for 99c per call (or some such - maybe it was by mail at 3x cents) you could vote for the 'young Elvis' vs the 'old Elvis' stamp ... and some folks voted many, many times. That one I approved of - let the govt. collect what amounts to a surcharge on folks who'll spend their $ so foolishly.

Someone once also described state lotteries as 'gambling for the math-impaired.' (Though I still buy a ticket once in a while!)

Clay

Re: VeRO...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I would think LV would be happy to have all the photos of their product on the web they can get out there; and I'm an adament IP protector. Now maybe the photographer, if s/he is still holding some copy rights, would like to complain. Just think of all the extra hits they'll get at their site because of this auction, the seller can't prohibit buyers from roaming around the web.

As for the price, it's usually a tactical error to start with such a high bidding price; but there's nothing that says a person can't try. Maybe LV has undervalued their plane? If I were Rob, I'd certainly keep an eye on this auction, but for information, not to stop it.

Pam

Very true Pam

MikeL

>Looking at those photos has me thinking about heading over to the LV website and placing an order. Dang, I'm as predictable as Pavlov's dogs.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: another one--- rebutal

Matthew J D'Avella, Kona HI

>Keep in mind that the Blue and Orange Borg's are not EVERYWHERE. And Amazon does not ship free to EVERYWHERE. Some of us live and work in remote locations, and UPS is a lot cheaper than driving 50 miles one way to the local Borg.

Someone here on the island is selling local Hawaiian wood on eBay for double the cost of the wood locally, BUT, the final sale price is still cheaper than the cost of that same wood from most lumber yards over there in America.

As for Rob wanting to pull his copyrighted pics... WHY? It's free advertising, and the auction is for one week, not an online store, and if "clown" can sell the plane for the price listed then Rob might have grounds to raise the 'direct from manufacturer' price.

One last note here; did anyone stop to think that the seller could be Rob or a representative of LV? (no offense Rob). eBay is the cheapest form of broad spectrum product evaluation. How many times have you seen multiple auctions for the same item by the same seller with auction closing times just minutes apart, and one item priced with a "buy it now" of double the current auction price. The thought being that it would raise the attraction (and the prices) of the cheaper auctions.

"Never give the general public too much credit for being smart. People want to be told where to sit and led to the chair. The trick is to make then feel special while being told what to do". Jan Dougherty

Aloha all!

Matthew J D'Avella

Bracing for the winter swells and rain, arriving this afternoon. WOOOHOOO!!!

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Ernie Miller Topeka

>Auctions have all ways been buyers beware! and if this guy can sell a plane or two that is a plane or two more that Rob has sold. On the other hand if it dosent sell and he dosent do woodworking than we can all smile as it collects dust or as he loses some $

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Rob Lee

>Hi -

Ebay was notified about this this morning, and the auctions will be pulled soon (if not by now)...

Ebay's pretty good about copyright infringement... and we've done this before.

Nothing to stop the guy from taking his own photos, and re-listing though....hate to see people get ripped off like this, but there's nothing we can do about it....

"caveat emptor" still applies...

Cheers -

Rob

On a smaller scale

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I don't track eBay prices, but a couple of years ago, it was part of my evening online entertainment to fantasize about buying tools I don't have money for, so I'd search. I noticed then that people were regularly paying twice retail for Stanley 271 router planes, hardly something that you'd show off to your fellow galoots as "Look at this Type 9 I picked up for just $40!"

I guess people really thought the rust was worth an extra $20.

Woof! :)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

No

Russell Seaton

>I would think LV would be happy to have all the photos of their product on the web they can get out there

No. Having the Lee Valley plane pictures involved in a scam auction does nothing to benefit Lee Valley. Whether Lee Valley is completely innocent or not, the association is planted in people's minds. When people see this scam auction and the plane, they will attribute negative thoughts about the scam auction to the plane.

If Playboy magazine and other similar magazines filled their pages with photos of women on new cars owned by the magazines, would the car manufacturers be happy about the additional publicity? All perfectly legal. But I doubt the car manufacturers would like the association.

There is no such thing as a "scam" auction...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>And since car manufacturers usually sell their wares via "buy this car and you will be a happy, successful person who will be able to afford most anything, including naked women" advertising, I see no reason to suspect they'd be offended at all.

Pam

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Ted Shuck

>How do you know he has even bought the plane yet?

He could wait for the auction to finish, receive payment, then order the plane. He'd still get it to the buyer in a reasonable time.

Ted

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>That's the best you can do Rob.. the Copyright infringement is clear...

I have seen these auctions or similar before...many times for Lie-Nielsen planes where people buy a used regular LN for more than the cost of a new one...

I scratch my head some because these people are internet users and can visit LN's site just as easily as going to ebay and searching/bidding on a LN plane. Further, I suspect that people who bid on LN's and perhaps others know what they are bidding on...

oh well...

Re: Observation?

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I went and checked his feed back and to see what all he sells. any way only about half of his auctions are private. The rest a bunch of used computer parts. This makes me wonder if he realy dosen't know what he is doing. I wonder if Lee Valley drop ships? Does LV have a store in Ontario? that is his location I bet he sells the stuff and then goes down town and putchases it.

Re: selling

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Pam, I had the same thought; considering their advertising on tv, I think if the FCC allowed naked women during prime time the car sellers would be the first to use it.

I thought maybe it was Mr. Lee selling the plane, but I see he is puttiing a stop to the auction.

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Justin W in Ann Arbor, MI

>The auction is still running. What's exciting is that he's dropped his starting bid to the bargain price of $179.99 (down $50!!!). Maybe he decided that asking $90.99 above retail was too much - hence the logical starting point of $40.99 above retail. Go figure.

Re: Yet another Ebay "deal" (for the seller)

Paul Barnard

>Part of the problem is that search providers take money to prioritise their results and too many times I see a screen full of paid links before getting to the actual site I'm looking for. I'm sure a lot of people get suckered into going to sub optimal links because of this.

Sometimes it seems that the whole internet is designed to part the unwary from their cash

LV in Ontario

Paul Barnard

>The 'Valley' part of Lee Valley refers to the Ottawa Valley which is in Ontario. So yep they do have a mighty fine store, warehouse, and factory in Ontario :-)

Language caution

Ted Owen, Moderator

>May I please ask that we be careful about using terms like "scam" on the forum. Unless it's absolutely clear that the word is factually descriptive. And seeking an unusually high sales price during an auction may fall short of an actual scam.

It's not inconceivable that someone referred to as running a "scam" auction could feel the poster committed libel and pursue an action--an action that almost certainly would include WoodCentral.

Maybe I'm being a little overly sensitive, so it's just a request. I'm only asking that everyone be considerate toward the consequences of his or her language.

Best, Ted