scraping

Re: scraping *LINK*

Jack from Maine

>See Steve Knight's thread below for a couple words on figured cherry.---Jack


http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/handtools.pl?read=28220

Re: scraping

John Truxell-Svenson (jvs)

>I use several tools for figured cherry. A Gordon smoother @60� works fine most of the time; the really difficult stuff surrenders to the Gordon with the blade reversed, a 110� scraper plane I made, or, barring all of that, a card scraper. As a final pass, there is nothing evil about using sandpaper; it is impossible to tell where sandpaper was used instead of metal under a film finish like varnish or shellac, and very difficult to tell under just oil.

Lots of ways to skin this one--try an archives search for scraper plane, and you will get hits for both the LN and LV, and there has been lots of discussion about the low-angle tools with a steeper-than-normal primary bevels being magic bullets for tough stuff as well. Haven't felt the need, since the arsenal above has dealt well with everything I have come across.




/jvs

Re: scraping

Tony Z.

>I think I need to rephrase (expand??)my original question. I appreciate the answers so far, however, my issue is a lack of knowledge of technique in using a scraper. I can get lots of sawdust! Occasionally I'll get a nice thin shaving. With regards to the table top I'm currently working on, I'll probably resort to some sanding, as the piece will be finished with shellac. For my self-training purposes, will it be easier to use the Veritas 112 style scraping plane, or stick with card type? Any guidance as to technique with either?

Re: scraping *LINK*

Darrell in Oakville

>Tony,

The card scraper should work fine for you. If you want to remove a lot of stock then you want to get shavings from the scraper. If you are just cleaning up a couple of troublesome spots then you might actually be after dust, not shavings. Otherwise you'll end up with low spots which will show up on the finished product. If you scrape one area heavily, you have to scrape all of it the same way to keep the surface even.

Check out Ralph's scraper tutorial, it's pretty thorough.

Darrell

Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User


http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/scraping/scraper

oops.... *LINK*

John Truxell-Svenson (jvs)

>Missed the point of the question. If you are getting dust, there is definitely a problem. Ralph Brendler has a wonderful concise reference at the link below; if you are still not getting what you are looking for, ask away. There is also some information on scraper sharpening in the A&R sections to the left, sounds like that could easily be the problem.

Someone (M. Schwing?) posted a few months ago about how he was able to adjust the LV scraper to take care of some horrific-sounding tropical wood that was resisting all other efforts--it will be in the archives, or maybe whoever it was will speak up and point to the thread. Even highly figured cherry should not be a problem with card scrapers, though, unless it was damaged by bad drying or some other event. Planes just get you to the same place a little faster, and possibly a little more accurately with regard to surface leveling, but even that shouldn't be a problem by hand with the right usage over the typically fairly small problem areas.

Sorry--can't help other than that with the planes you mention, but people rave about the results once they are adjusted properly.




/jvs


http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/scraping/scraper

you win, darrell... :)

John Truxell-Svenson (jvs)

>

Re: scraping

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I know you restated your question, but not sure why, exactly.

I can say that I have no problems smoothing cherry with my low angle Japanese smoothers, nor with an ECE Reformed smoother I used a year or so ago, nor with HNT Gordon smoothers. And I do a lot of cherry.

Pam

Re: scraping

David Barnett

>Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from buying a #112-type scraping plane, because I sure wouldn't give mine up, but until you're comfortable honing and turning a card scraper, the #112 is likely to compound the challenges. Obviously, your planing will need to get you close enough for scraper work, leaving only minor tearout and rough spots before final smoothing. So if you're ripping out wood chips, work on that first. Otherwise, work on card scraper technique (Brendler's site, as others have suggested).

The #112 is wonderful tool, especially for leveling and flattening large surfaces, but a well-adjusted #80 can do nearly as well and is great for small panels. I'd want to get nice curly shavings with a card scraper before moving on to either of those, though.

As for bedding angles on figured cherry, I've had more success with high or low angle bedded planes than with the usual 45-degrees. If the #62 is a bit long for you, you could try a small LA block plane, coming in from various directions at the trouble spots. Now and then I'll 'slice' with the block, taking off narrow curved shavings (luthiers often do this). Anyway, sometimes a block plane is a good intermediary step between the smoothing plane and scraping.

Re: scraping

Tony Z.

>Thanks for the help so far! I'm going to review Ralph's link shortly. First, I'm only in a year or two to the handtool conversion, so I am still basically a novice, learning by doing. Second, I've been accused by more than one person in not being specific enough when I speak or ask questions--mixing topics too!

There's a lot of "meat" in the answers so far, but the crux of the matter seems to be, although I've spent time learning the art of using a handplane, I haven't really applied the same attention to a scraper. Truthfully, up until this point, I really haven't had the perceived need to.

Thanks again to all of you!

Good advice...

Rob Lee

>...from David.

I'd try to talk you out of a scraping plane too...

A hand (card) scraper is best to learn with - there's a lot of tactile feedback you just won't get with a plane.

Cheers -

Rob

Re: scraping

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>One thing I think most people don't realize about a card scraper is the critical point of honing the edge and face of the scraper. The metal card that you hold in your hand looks flat, but it has fine machine marks in it. If you don't hone the face, you will have a number of tiny ridges in the scraper face, which leads to a jagged edge only visible at higher magnification. Try honing the face on a fairly coarse stone (6 or 8 hundred) or sandpaper, then polishing it on finer grits until it shines. Then "joint" the edge with a file, and hone it. Where the two edges meet should be a sharp 90� angle. Raise a slight burr and turn it over with your burnisher, and you are ready to try it. When trying it, hold the scraper at various angles, pushing it across the board until you feel that hook biting into the wood; now you will get shavings. The metal has to be good enough to hold a nice edge, and better metal will hold an edge longer. You could pick up scraping in 15 minutes or so with someone there to show you, and it might take a week or two to learn it on your own. Using the card scraper has the advantage of not having a critical angle on the burr, whereas the scraper plane, if you really want to take wood off fast, the angle of the burr and a straight edge is critical.

Re: scraping

Russell Hill - San Jose, CA

>I recently figured out the problem that I was having using my card scraper was actually my lack of a good burnisher. The shaft of a screwdriver just will not do the trick! I bought a real carbide burnisher and can not believe the difference. Now I get curly whispy shavings every time and I can get a more agressive cut by burnishing the edge with more pressure. The difference is quite amazing with the right tool. I have not sanded anything for 6 weeks.

Must agree

David Barnett

>I always got results that were so-so before I got a really hard burnisher - a 1/4" carbide router bit. Big difference. I now use a split boule of lab-grown ruby (about 350 carats). Cheap, easy to hold, smooth, and very hard. Not gonna wear it out anytime soon, either, I don't think.

Self Training

Kirk in HMB, CA

>In my opinion, a card scraper would be easier to learn than a 112. Tried both, quicker path up the learning curve with the card scraper.

The 112 is a good tool, but a pain to learn. Keeping it really sharp obviously helps, but its a bear to sharpen due to width and 60� bevel. I tore up a QSWO table top real good while learning, took many weeks to repair. And this was after practicing on scraps.

Re: scraping

Alan Hamilton

>Tony,

I had a lot of trouble, similar to yours, with both my card scrapers and my Stanley #80. Using a scraper plane versus using a card scraper wasn't the problem. The problem wasn't my technique, either. The problem was my sharpening.

I was making too much of an edge; WAY too much of an edge. Because the edge had very little steel behind it, one swipe and it would fold over. I'd feel the edge with my fingernail, and it was still there, so back to the wood. Frustration ensued, along with lots of wood dust, and a strange urge to buy sandpaper.

Nowadays, after I've filed and stoned my scrapers, it's easy does it with the burnisher. I've found that three strokes--or four, tops--is all it takes to get a proper sized burr; then no more than two strokes to turn an edge that makes shavings instead of dust. I've also found that I don't need to joint off the burr nearly so often; a smaller burr is easier to straighten out.

Alan