140 plane 'handedness' *LINK*

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Dennis Mcdonaugh

>I'm with you. I have a Stanley 140 and I can't use it because the rabbet edge is on the right. Its all wrong for a right hander. I would also like to know if anyone has an idea what Stanley intended for this plane. They made so many variations of block planes its inconceivable to me that they just made it backwards.

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>The L-N photo is of a "right hand" plane. The right hand plane has the removable plate on the right, the left hand has the removable plate on the left.

For trimming cheeks, the left hand plane is preferable for the reasons you describe. However, for rebating, the opposite configuration is usually the most desirable, i.e., the fence towards your nondominant side with the handle propelled by your dominant hand, so a right hand plane would be preferable for most instances when making a classic rebate. Of course some times, the grain direction works against you (such as fielding all four sides of a panel), and you want to be able to plane from the opposite direction. Thus the desirability of both planes.

But again, for cheeks, a right hand dominant person is most likely to find the "left hand" plane to be preferable.

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Don't you think this is dependent on how you clamp the tenoned piece? If I clamp the board with tenon towards me, the rebate side of the plane will be toward the shoulder when positioned on the right side of the tenon. So then I'd step to the right and push.

Pam

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Yes. Those of us who have grown to love the RH140 as a cheek trimming device have adapted our positioning technique to make it work, or are comfortable using it left handed (which is how I usually used it). But I think for most, the LH version will instantly seem better suited for sizing cheeks, at least I know it was for me.

140L still available

Chad Pearson

>Sent a message to LN today asking if they have 140L's. Got a quick response saying they still had them and were going to continue making them as a regular item soon. Thinking of getting one....hmmm.

No affiliation...blah...blah...blah

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sure, certainly it would be easier in most cases to be able to hold the piece in the left hand with the tenon facing right. Geesh, this thread is making me crazy lusting after this plane. :)

Pam

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Talk about second thoughts: but then what do you do when you have to come in from the other side to avoid splintering/tear out at the edge?

Pam

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Uh, use the other handed plane. That's the disadvantage of a skewed blade (which as you know, can sometimes cause awful tear out if used against the grain), but part of the rationale for having a matched pair of skewed planes is that you can approach such things from both sides and still have the skew's leading edge properly positioned for the task.

They sure are expensive as a matched pair, but they sure are wonderful too.

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, but then you'd be back to pulling, holding it in the right hand and pushing, or clamping as I suggested. I don't find any of these options intolerable. Seems the best way to do this is clamp with the tenon facing me, then plane from the right and left with separate planes held in separate hands. Or, just learn to cut tenons to fit. :)

Pam

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Actually I didn't do a very good job responding directly to your issue of "splintering/tear out at the edge" (of cheeks I presume). Frankly, I don't think I have ever encounter this with the 140 and the woods I use. The reason, of course, is that that with straight grained wood (the very sort one should be using for M&T joints), the skewed blade is not entering any given fiber along the fibers entire linear length (one of the big advantages of the 140 over the 60.5R). With a 140, the individual fiber is severed cleanly by the leading edge of the blade right at the shoulder of the joint, then as the plane progresses forward, the blade continues to cut that fiber at only one point at a time. Thus a well adjusted and sharpened blade should initiate no splintering to speak of, and if any should occur, it would be expected toward the very linear end of the tenon where it wouldn't make any difference with respect to fit, visibilty or gluing on a blind mortice. If I was really concerned with such things for an exposed tenon, I'd just back up the edge.

Now I must admit I probably work with Cocobolo, Oak, Maple and Blackwood Acacia more than almost any other woods, but with woods such as these I've never have a single instance of problems with cheek edge splintering with my 140.

My earlier remarks were more oriented to using the plane for rebating, and have been prominent in my mind ever since I had some ash which tore out just horribly with my RH 140, but I couldn't approach it using the fence from the other direction.

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>Here's my philosophy on trimming tenon cheeks. The end of the tenon is unimportant (unless, of course, you are doing unwedged through tenons), from a structural point of view, at least. Therefore, if you have a little blow-out at the end of a cheek cut, just don't worry about it.

Reasons for my embracing this philosophy:

The glue between the tenon cheeks and the sides of the mortise, and the shoulders, hold the joint. If you use pins, they also provide structural support. The ends of the tenons against the ends of the mortises are not structurally significant.

You need some space at the end of the tenon during assembly for alignment of the parts, whether you are aligning a chair seat rail with the top of the legs, or fitting a panel into a rail and stile frame. There is no sense in making the tenon shoulders the determining factor in final adjustments. To make exact fits just means you have to take a lot more time in measuring and shaping and trimming the ends of your mortises and tenons. And if you did, what do you get for your effort? At the bottom of the mortise, air gets trapped and compressed, forcing the glue and the tenon out of the joint. Any slight inaccuracy means you have to plane the top edge of the assembly flush (end grain-long grain-end grain), instead of adjusting it with a mallet before the glue sets up.

Still, it would be nice to have one for trimming tenons after a wayward saw, and the other for rabbets and raising panels. Maybe I've been looking at mine the wrong way and recommending it for all the wrong reasons, just because it's me that's built backwards, not the plane.

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Looks like the only wood we have in common is oak and ash. I suspect that it depends more on how the wood is milled, whether flat sawn, quarter sawn, etc. Because of splintering in pine, cherry and cedar (all flat sawn) when I restarted woodworking four years ago (with hand tools), I started taking precautions to avoid it; but I haven't tested this since, automatically plane in from the edges of tenon cheeks.

Pam

Re: 140 plane 'handedness'

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, I don't worry much at all about the ends of the tenons; but when I get near the shoulders, which is exactly where the rebate planes are needed (I know you know this, just stating the obvious for emphasis), I start worrying a lot. I don't think it's all that difficult to measure for exact fits, simply set the gauge by the chisel; but sawing for an exact fit is where my difficulties arise, tend to get scared off and cut just a hair too much into the waste, then have to trim, which always seems such a hassle, hard to avoid taking too much off, all that constant refitting.... And then there are the wayward saw cuts, when the blade begins to wear and/or readjust itself...

Pam

Take your unwanted 140...

Fred G - Cincinnati

>...and send it to me. I'll give it a good home. Or maybe I'll trade you my 60-1/2R. :)

Strange that everyone says they can't get used to using the 140. I don't have a skewed plane, and I'm a rightie, but I set up with tenons on the left for trimming. Of course, it's not the first time I've been in the minority.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Fred