Kirby's dovetail book

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

Tom Colligan, Peoria

>I have the Kirby book and it will be a keeper. But after buying and watching Rob Cosman's video on hand cut dovetails his way is certainly easier and more efficient than Kirby's way. Kirby is more of an intellectual here while Rob is 'let's get it done!' type of teacher. I've really enjoyed his two videos and know you wouldn't regret the $20 they cost.

Re: Kirby's dovetail book *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I highly recommend Jim Kingshott's videos on M&T and dovetails, as well as his two planes videos. He also has a book on joinery. While there, you may as well do a search on Frank Klausz, too, also highly recommended. I haven't read much of Kirby or seen the Cosman videos; but many also recommend them.

I'd also check Amazon for any videos and books, often you can find them used for a lot fewer dollars.

Pam


Kingshott at Cambium

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>I have this book and I actually find it irritating! I've tried using the coping saw method and it frankly sucks compared to chopping the waste with a chisel to the line in the first place. I can't for the life of me think of a single reason to defend this method.

There is some useful information on the different variants of the dovetail but I'm not sure it is worth the money for that alone.

As they, YMMV.

OTOH, Kirby did do a good article on M&T in a Woodworker's Journal some time ago. For hand mortise cutting, he used two methods. What I call the chop,chop,chop,chop method where youd make lots of little chips, and the chop to depth method which I find more efficient.

It might be more efficient but I'm still not good enough to trust myself with anything better than wood to practice on. I had to make about ten mortise's recently for my current project and I drilled most of the waste and used a very sharp wide chisel to pare to the drill marks.

woodworker's journal link - kirby *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>This could be the article

Cheers,

Andrew


http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/articles/mortiseandtenon.cfm

agree. Klause for mortises

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I have both these sources and agree entirely with this assessment. We just finished teaching another dovetail class for club and always use the tape as the primary teaching tool and the book as a resource for advanced material. Students quickly catch on to the layout method which is flexible and foolproof.

The Klause tape on mortises is equally good. (I find the Klause tape on dovetails not very useful)

Nice Article!

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>

disagree on rip v. crosscut

Tom Williams

>I too think this book is a keeper, and similarly think the two Cosman videos are a good deal better, though perhaps not as comprehensive.

Off hand, the only point that I can recall disagreeing with Kirby is his comment that (paraphrasing) it makes no difference whether you use a crosscut or rip filed saw for dovetailing. I think it matters, and that there are now enough rip-filed, fine-toothed saws available new that a beginner should certainly be pointed in that direction.

Tom

Re: agree. Klause for mortises

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Ah, come on, how could you not get pleasure, method, and goals from freehand cut tails? They're fast, accurate, and fun. And he also shows how to build the whole drawer efficiently.

Pam

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

Charles

>I agree. I applaud Kirby's thorough treatment, but once one really starts cutting dovetails you'll quickly save the coping saw for, well, coping moldings.

Keep it simple; the fewer the tools you use the better.

Kirby's magazine articles

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>The one thing that has made a huge difference to me is that in a magazine article Kirby describes pratice and extending the line down the face where Rob Cosman starts the score line and goes up to the end. The extension of the line has helped me alot. Another suggestion I recieved from the forum was using a chisel to score the endgrain line it's a great tip put the bevel toward the waste.

Kirby and the tails board

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Adam,

Don't have the book. But one of Kirby's recommendations has stuck in my mind and has made a great difference to me. That recommendation has to do with sawing the tails board, which for him (and me) is the first board in the typical situation. What he said is this: When you start to saw the tails board, don't be thinking initially about the angle you're gonna have to hit. Indeed, from a functional standpoint, it doesn't really matter if you hit the angle or not. What does matter is making the starting sawcuts dead square across the end grain. His specific recommendation is to make the starting cut (say, the first 1/32") with the saw vertical (not angled at all). Focus only on getting the kerf started square to the faces. Having got the kerf started square, then and only then shift attention to the angle you're going to cut. Getting this right will make a big difference in what your dovetails look like.

This recommendation was an article in a Taunton Book "Fine Woodworking on Boxes, Carcases, and Drawers". Wiley

Wiley

Re: woodworker's journal link - kirby

Adam DeGraff

>Andrew,

thanks for that link to Kirby's M&T article. In his article he says:

"In a subsequent article I�ll put theory into practice by looking at ways the joint can be cut and describe, through the making of a simple table, what you must do before and after cutting the joint."

Do you have a link for that article too? Pretty please.

Thank you for your help.

Adam

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

Jack from Maine

>I haven't read Kirby's book but I learned how to dovetail partially from reading an article he wrote for a magazine. I don't agree with alot of his methods but I learned to saw from his article.I also got alot of small details from him that I still use.He is a good teacher.---Jack

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

John K in Hastings, MN

>My favorite guide has always been the "Pins or Tails First" battle in Fine Woodworking #100. Christian Becksvoort vs. Franz Klausz. Well worth finding.

John

Re: woodworker's journal link - kirby

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>I haven't seen that article before. The article I was referring to was on using hand tools only. That is, mortise chisel and mallet.

The article I'm referring to was in February 2002 (Vol 26 No 1). I had to go hunting through a box to find this :-)

re

glh

>Although I'm not proficient in cutting the joint, I do know the literature fairly well. I think I have all the videos on dovetails. Rob Cusman (2, Handcut Dovetails, and Advanced Handcut Dovetails), Kingshott (1 dovetail, and 1 mortise and tenon), Tage Frid, Frank Klause (1 dovetail, 1 mortise and tenon). I also have Kirby's book, and I think it's excellent. However, the videos, especially Cusman's first on Handcut Dovetails, Kingshott's, and Klause's, have benefitted me more because you can actually see what's going on. In this regard, I think Kingshott's is actually the better of the lot. I do like Klause's freehand form of dovetailing. Once you practice it a few times, it's remarkable how close you come to consistency in the spacing of the dovetails. In part, he defendss his method by noting (in a workshop) that that's the way he was taught, and that if you look at some really old dovetailed drawers, the spacing isn't consistent anyway. Now, I don't think this would look very good on a jewerly box, but on a drawer it's fine.

On joinery in general, there is an excellent book by Gary Rogowski (my have mispelled his last name) published by Taunton Press. It's part of a series on general skills that includes frame construction by Andy Rae and shaping wood by Lonnie Bird, and others. Rogowski also has a good video on joinery with a router that doesn't involve spending two making jigs or spending the grandkids inheritance on commerical ones.

Re: Kirby's dovetail book

Ed Falis

>Adam, the book for you is the out-of-print "Making Joints" by Ian Kirby (of course). Go to Amazon, look up the title, then see whether they have any used ones available. That's how I got my copy. You won't be disappointed. There are other used book sellers on the net you can check as well.

I also liked Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking, Vol I&II, that covers a lot of the same ground well.

- Ed

Sorry - don't have that one

Andrewf in Australia

>