Japanese Plane Recommendations

'nother question

Luke Herzberg

>I read through that great big Pam/Lyn thread down there and have reached my own conclusion: I don't know a darn thing about Japanese planes. Is there a website with some simple crayon drawings of the parts of Japanese planes with names and labels and such?

Thanks,

Luke

Best video I've ever seen *LINK*

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>I helped beta-test Harrelson Stanley's new DVD, Kanna: The Japanese Hand Plane. It is absolutely fantastic--very comprehensive, clear to see, easy to follow, etc. So much so that I think it's the best woodworking video I've ever seen, and I have a lot of them.

Thank heaven I didn't try to tune my Japanese smoother before viewing this information.

Pam, there's some blacksmithing material that I think you'd enjoy. I urged Harrelson to cut back a bit on it, as it is more detailed than some might care to endure. But he felt it was necessary to explain the other concepts of the DVD.

BTW, it's $60 because it's two full DVD's. Well worth every penny. I should do a review, I guess.

No affiliation, etc...

Best, Ted


Japanese hand plane (smoother, mostly) DVD

Re: 'nother question *LINK*

Ray DuBose, Memphis TN

>I purchased my first japanese plane years ago from Japan Woodworker, I can't find it in the catalog anymore, but it was around $120, very thick blade, rarely have to sharpen it and cuts like a dream, far better and smoother than any stanley I have.

I was scared to even touch the thing for several months because when you get them you have to fit the blade in the body which equates to taking a chisel after the plane body and hopeing you don't over do it. Lucky I didn't have to shim it back up after doing it. Also it took awhile to learn to set the plane because I had only used metal body planes before that. Oddly enough what helped me figure it out was a little Video From Steve Knight that showed how to set the blade by tapping the front and back of the body with a hammer. Now it's easier to set the blade in my japanese planes than it is in metal body planes.

I don't have anything that shows the parts but the japanese are known for their simplicity and planes are no different. There are only 3 parts, The Plane Body called the "Dai", the Blade or "Kanna" and the Cap Iron (chipbreaker) that I don't remember the name for but it only came about in the late 1800's for their planes

I've attached a website that towards the middle has a drawing of a Japanese plane and it split out to show you what the parts are.


http://dougukan.jp/eng/dougu-e/e04kana.html

Re: Best video I've ever seen

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Ted, Harrelson sent me a copy, too, great stuff. At times I thought he was moving too slowly, but, on second thought, figured it was just right, he showed everything (to my knowledge) that can go wrong and how to deal with it.

I haven't finished watching it all yet, am now starting on the tapping out section, is that where the blacksmithing material resides?

Pam

Re: 'nother question *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Don't know about on the net, although I just did a Google search and didn't come up with much; however, the best written source is by Toshio Odate in his "Japanese Woodworking Tools...". It is an extraordinarily well written and informative source that requires multiple readings, some tool use and building, and more readings.

Pam


Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition,...

Re: Japanese Plane Recommendations *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I do have a strong preference for Japanese smoothers, saws (especially), and mortising and paring chisels; however, I use a diverse mix of tools styles outside of saws. Most of my bench planes are wood, though, ECE Primus, HNT Gordon, C&W, and some antique western. The only metal bench planes I use and like a lot are the LN LA jack and the Veritas 4.5.

That said, I'm probably not the best person to ask about smoothers. I bought a small one from Misugi Designs that was fairly inexpensive, maybe $120-150, that is nice; but my other two I made and won (Inomoto-san). I'm sure others will chime in real soon now. There are people out there with piles of Japanese smoothers.

I would say that there's nothing simple about Japanese planes. You didn't say this, but someone else did. The geometry is incredibly complex, things you wouldn't think of, which Odate-san covers thoroughly in his book reference below.

You may want to ask this question in the Hiraide forum, there's a planes topic.

Pam


Hiraide forum

Re: Japanese Plane Recommendations

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Brent,

I use both western and Japanese planes, metal and woodies. In what follows, I'm going to speak in declarative sentences, as though I'm stating facts. Be advised, it's mostly my opinion and experience. Others may differ, so gather different opinions.

The price points on Japanese planes are about $165-200; then about $400; then $700-800; then $1,000+. When you are new to it--and we all start out new to it--the differences between these price points are subtle, and you are much better off buying a $165 plane and learning how to maintain and use it, than buying a real expensive plane. Here's why:

Buying and owning and using a Japanese plane is different than what folks are used to with western planes. The paradigm for a western plane costing $150-400 or more is that you take it out of the box, maybe give the blade a final honing, maybe do a little detailing of the sole, and then you use it. You expect it to be largely ready to go out of the box--and how much work you do to it up front comes down to how much you like to 'blueprint' your planes. But basically, for that money, you can buy a plane and pretty much start using it right away.

But with a Japanese plane, you're going back in time. You receive a dai (the body--usually Japanese white oak or red oak) and a main blade and a subblade (aka chipbreaker). You're gonna have to do some work with a file or scraper in order to fit that blade into that dai. That's before it takes one shaving. You're gonna have to take a 1/8" chisel or edge of a file, and lay back the sides of the abutments (blade slot) so there's room for lateral adjustment of the blade. That's before you've taken one shaving. The dai maker is not going to insult you by making a bunch of assumptions about how you want your plane set up--so he will get it close, but leave the detailed fit to you.

You will have to learn how to maintain the sole, which is critical to good performance. Sharpening the blade so as to relieve the edges a bit is also important. Detailing the subblade can be important--you should know how to do this. Once you start using the plane, you will start running out of cutting edge in front of the 'ura' (the hollow), and it may come as a shock to learn that now you have to 'tap out' the blade--put it on an anvil and hit it a bunch of blows with a hammer in a carefully controlled manner--in order to expose more cutting edge so you can keep planing.

In short, there's a lot to learn. So you want to get Harrelson's DVD, or otherwise arrange for some hands-on instruction--if you're going to buy a Japanese plane. Buying the plane does not do anything for you in and of itself. You have to learn to get it working, and to maintain it before you're in business.

Far and away the best thing to do is to follow Pam's example and sign up for the next plane-making session at Hiraide. And if, like her, you can win the thin-shaving contest with the plane you made, and win another plane to take home, so much the better.

But if the seminar approach doesn't fit your life, then get the DVD. Now the plane Pam spoke of from MIsugi Designs (www.misugidesigns.com, the Gomi plane, p. 3 of the woodworking pages) is a very good option. Harrelson Stanley at Hiraide America (the guy that made the DVD) has a range of planes at www.japanesetools.com. His Mosaku line of planes is great IMO, but they are about $400, and I don't know his more reasonably priced planes, so you would need to call and talk with him and he will provide honest advice on the differences between his planes, and which ones you might consider. He is extremely knowledgeable, and helpful.

Wiley

Thanks

Brent Langdon, Sterling, VA

>Thanks gang! I added "Japanese Woodworking Tools" to my wish list over at Amazon, but for now I think that I will stick with a western metal plane. I just need to decide if it will be the LV low angle smoother or the LV 4 1/2. Lyn's " High Angle Smoothing Plane Review" has me leaning towards the 4 1/2.

- Brent