Ontario WoodWorks show-Tasai Chisels

Re: Ontario WoodWorks show-Tasai Chisels

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sounds like a really good show, Lloyd.

Good move buying that Tasai, they're right up there with the best mortising chisels, maybe even the best, you won't be disappointed. You may also want to seriously consider Tasai paring/push chisels, which are also wonderful.

As to tools in SoCal, Palomar College in San Marcos has an extensive woodworking program. They hosted the Kezurou Kai last year, I'd bet the students are buying good tools from somewhere nearby.

And if you want to go to Japanese tool heaven, take a trip to Berkeley/SF, there reside Hida, Misugi, and Japan Woodworker.

Pam

Re: Ontario WoodWorks show-Tasai Chisels

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Lloyd,

Seconding what Pam said (as I often do!), you made a good choice with the Tasai. It only hurts once when you buy high quality. I also would like to second Pam's recommendation to consider the paring/push chisels, which are 14-15" slicks (no ring). These are my favorite chisels of all, in part because I like to saw dovetail waste, and therefore do much more paring than chopping.

Be extra nice to your wife--I'm sure she felt she went way more than halfway saying yes to a $100 chisel. And you're gonna want more of em.

Wiley

Re: San Marcos area tools

MikeL in SoCal

>Pam wrote: "Palomar College in San Marcos has an extensive woodworking program. ....I'd bet the students are buying good tools from somewhere nearby."

You'd think so but, unfortunately, 'tis not the case. The only WW store I know of in SD County is Rockler. I'm not sure where Lloyd lives but there's a recently opened Woodcraft in Stanton (Orange County).

Cheers,

Mike - who regrets not attending last year's Kezurou Kai at Palomar College which is only a ~10 minute drive away

Re: San Marcos area tools

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>That's a shame, good thing the 3 primary Japanese tool vendors I rely on (Hiraide, Hida, and Misugi) provide such quality advice and generous return policies. Of course, I don't abuse those policies, and generally prefer a great internet site so I can see what's being described on the phone; but that's pretty expensive for a small vendor to maintain.

Pam

Pam, How about a mortise tool review?

Ed in Arizona

>I like my Japanese dovetail chisels so much, that I find myself looking at the japanese mortise chisels in Japan tools catalog also, but would like to compare to western as I already have some of those.. maybe you can fill me in ?

thanks

Re: Pam, How about a mortise tool review?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'd say that any of the mortising chisels carried by any of the three vendors I recommend (Misugi Designs, Hiraide, Hida Tools) would do just fine. In addition, many of the smaller timber framing chisels do mortising tasks with no problem, but perhaps aren't quite as sturdy as the mortising chisels.

I've also used some western mortising chisels, do NOT recommend the huge ones that are uniformly thick because they tend to split the wood; but I do recommend those that are tapered from front to back as well as along their length, that is, look like Japanese mortising chisels without the laminations and structure of the necks. Those I have are PS&W and Witherby.

And, with the right technique, you can even chop mortises with Marples blue handled bench chisels.

Pam

Re: Pam, How about a mortise tool review?

Ed in Arizona

>Thanks Pam, I remember about 15yrs ago when I got the woodworking "bug" I took a woodwork night course and wanted to make the Kirby bench in the woodbench book, it is still my only bench. I used a set of Blue handle marples to chop out the mortises ( rather large i must say). after drilling first.

Re: Pam, How about a mortise tool review?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, the Marples get the job done; but the Japanese cut a much crisper mortise much faster, mainly because of the back arrises.

Pam

Pam and Wiley

Lloyd Robins

>You are right! I probably will buying at least one or two more Tasai chisels. I bought a 7.5 mm as I thought that the 6mm was a little small. What other sizes do you recommend in a mortising chisel. Please don't start me on the paring chisels (at least for awhile.) I really like my Nishiki dovetails, but what about the Tasai bench chisels?

After listening to you two and others, I seem to have been taken by the Japanese side for chisels, and it was interesting watching Master Odate ripsawing by hand, but I think that I will stay on the Western side for saws. I really like my Adrias.

Re: San Marcos area tools

Lloyd Robins

>I live in a Lancaster-Palmdale area, and the big boxes are about it.

Re: sizes

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>The sizes you need will depend on the work you'll be doing, totally. I don't have a great set of bench chisels (12 from Woodcraft) and haven't replaced them with better Japanese because I have a set of 6 Two Cherries that I like a lot and I'm beginning to think they're irrelevant with sufficient mortising and paring chisels. But I'm sure Wiley and others can recommend some good bench chisels.

Enjoy the slope. BTW, Kingshott moved to Japanese chisels and planes at the end of his career, but never gave up his western saws, or so it appears from his videos.

Pam

Re: Pam and Wiley

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Lloyd,

Well, you have a fun problem, trying to decide which great chisel to get next! I thought the 7.5mm mortise was a perfect size, especially for 4/4 joinery.

To tell you the exact truth, although I have built up sets of chisels (generally, they are mixed and nonstandard) I do not think in "sets". Sets are especially good for the seller, since they can make batches of standard sizes. But I think about what I need for the next project. Each of us is working on different kinds and sizes of projects, and using different methods. Some are making small intricate boxes; some are making case goods; some are doing timber framing or making their bench; some chop dovetail waste and some saw it--all these considerations result in very different chisel choices. Let alone whether you like to hunch down over the work, the better to see up close; or stand up straight, the better to judge plumb.

So I don't pretend that my experience translates to your needs. But that said, I'll offer it anyway. I think your Nishiki dovetails are just fine for general bench chisels. I know I used less expensive dovetails from JWW for years to do all chiseling--and they were fine and didn't bend or break under a 16-oz steel hammer.

What made a difference in my life, where it comes to chisels, is when it was repeatedly suggested to me to buy a couple of paring chisels--slicks--and to stop chopping dovetail waste and start sawing it. Once I got a couple, I thought 'where have you been all my life?'

Now I mainly use paring chisels. I like that I can get two hands on them; that I can get my shoulder onto them and use body weight rather than arm strength (there's more control); if I'm trimming pins or plugs, I like the long handles and the finger relief they afford. And the long registration surface, so that they're like a plane in some ways. I like that it's easier to judge plumb.

And on the subject of sets and sizes, the MVP among my paring chisels is a 4.5mm, which appears in no sets that I know of. It is perfect for the sockets of the size dovetail pins I like, made in thickish 4/4 wood. The second favorite is a 6mm which does appear in sets. But the third favorite is a 7.5mm which does not. I also like a large slick--like around 24 to 30mm--for paring. Smaller ones will often do the job, but the wider chisel gets a great registration and it's easier to make a slicing cut without losing contact with the work. Your mileage WILL vary on all of this: I go into this minutiae just to illustrate that chisel choices (like most others for that matter) are highly personalized.

So that's my song about paring chisels, and I have to keep singing it. Enjoy the hunt!

Wiley

P.S.

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>When I said 'less expensive dovetails' in the above post, I meant they were not as high end as the ones you own, and therefore yours should do even better, if anything. Wiley

Re: Ontario WoodWorks show-Tasai Chisels

Lloyd Robins

>Thanks for the comments and advise!

Re: Pam and Wiley

Tom Williams

>Lloyd,

I seem to have missed the discussion but here are my comments anyway. My only Japanese chisels are a couple of Tasai mortise chisels and I'm very happy with them. I like how sharp they get and stay, and I dislike the bulky Western mortise chisels. You should take care of how you treat the edges as the hard steel is supposedly more prone to chipping ( I really haven't had much trouble myself). You might consider Harrelson's chisel sharpening DVD too.

As for sizes, I think the 7.5 is a great first choice. As Wiley stated, pick your additional sizes based on project needs. If you need something smaller I'd go down to 4.5, if larger go up to 9. The general guideline is that tenon thickness should be a bit over 1/3 of the rail thickness.

Tom