Carving Chisels

Re: Carving Chisels

Charles

>If you are not going to do any large carving, a set from flexcut with replaceable blades will work. They arrive sharp. Most (I think) chisels these days require honing. That takes a while, if you are not used to sharpening curved blades, it is easy to screw up the bevel. When you get past the learning curve and decide to go on with carving, you can get some quality chisels on ebay. I have picked up many for about 1/2 the new price, even including shipping.

Re: Carving Chisels

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>Rather than go out and buy a set, I recommend that you buy the tools as you need them. Sets are for general purpose, generally sculpting applications. There may turn out to be several tools in that you rarely use, and several that aren't that you wish you had once you start carving furniture. DAMHIKT.

Mike Dunbar issues a tool list for each of his chair making classes. For those chairs with carved ears and knuckles, he will specify the exact two (or whatever) chisels you will need by sweep and size.

You can extrapolate this idea to any other carving you might want to do to your furniture. Work up a full scale drawing of the carving. If the carving has an arc, make sure you have a gouge that has a sweep to match. Try to picture how you'd go about making the detail with a tool custom made for it. Then hit the tool supply catalogs and match that tool as closely as you can.

If you are not an experienced carver go to the library and thumb through the books on carving. You'll get an idea how the tools are used just by looking at the pictures and drawings.

I'd like it if someone in this forum would recommend a good book on carving for furniture.

Hope this helps

Greg

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>There are some dribs and drabs in "Period Furniture Details" by Lonnie Bird, "FWW on Making Period Furniture", and "Best of FWW: Traditional Furniture Projects".

I've found much more in video: "Carving Techniques and Projects" w/ Bush and Headley (a very young Mack), letters and shell, highly recommend for the delicate shell and carving a flat field for relief; "The Cabinetmaker: Crafting a Card Table" w/Headley shows cabriole leg/foot as well as the knee, hand tools only, short but excellent; "Carve A Ball and Claw Foot" w/Lowe, much more instruction on the foot, great stuff, design and layout; and most of the Nora Hall offerings, overall excellent.

I've spent almost all month studying this, chair joinery, and refinishing; so it's pretty fresh. The library has been wonderful, an amazing collection of videos and books from which I've been able to select those items I need to buy for repeated watching (btw, all of the above except the BoFW, haven't read all of this yet, may yet get it).

Pam

Thanks Pam

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>You are right about your library. You are truly blessed.

Greg

Re: Carving Chisels

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>You might want to see how far you can get with standard chisels. A year or two ago someone (Mark Meier? Mike Reccione?) posted some photos of a rocking horse his brother had carved with a single chisel, it was amazing.

Alternatively, Woodcraft sells a starter set of Pfeils that's sized for what you want to do.

Pam

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Pam, your mentioning "Cabriole leg" reminded me of Norm Vandal's book: Queen Anne Furniture History, design and construction. It has a chapter on cabriole legs, including instructions on making four varieties (turned-pad foot, slipper foot, Spanish foot and trifid foot (not quite a claw)). It also has carving instruction for a pierced chair crest rail and the shell/fan motif found on drawer fronts and highboy aprons, etc. The layout of a flame finial is also described in a fair amount of detail.

Greg

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks for the reminder, Greg, I'd heard this was a great book, will check it out.

Pam

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Gerry Mayberry

>Pam: I have been reading your posts about chairs. In the late 80's I tackled a set of dining room chairs, Chippendale ladder backs, also called Pretzelbacks. There is a set of them in George Washington's home in Mount Vernon, Va. It took forever since I was working full time but eventually got there. The key thing that enabled me to carry this out was an article by Gene Landon on Chippendale chairs in FWW #60, pp 38-45,1986. Landon fully explains the twisted side rail and through back tenon. He takes it straight through the rear stile. A more recent article by Will Neptune, Compound Angle Joinery, FWW 143, pp 60-65, 2000, describes a bent and angled rear tenon with a through mortise. Both articles show the joinery clearly with pictures and good descriptions. Additionally, Making Classic Chairs, by Ron Clarkson, Fox Chapel Publishing ,1997, is a good source of information on complex pierced back, carved Chippendale chairs. Where did you find the video(?) by Headley on the card table? Given your research, you may be aware of the above but you did not mention them.

Thanks, good ideas to get started

Mark Mcc

>

Re: Carving Chisels

Frank Mutchler

>I think the picture included a shot of the other tool he used....an old claw hammer ;>)!!

Re: Furniture carving instruction *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Gerry, William Duffield recommended the Landon article, reprinted in the "BoFW: Traditional Furniture Projects", which I got last night, just started reading. Also just dug out the Neptune article, looks real good, thanks, one of these days I'll organize these rags.

Clarkson is in my shopping cart just in case; but I suspect I have more than enough to go on. This book claims to have some furniture carving instruction in it - any good?

BTW, Michael Dunbar's book "Federal Furniture" also has a chapter on chair joinery, very good info.

The Headley video is available at the Colonial Williamsburg online store. I had to wait months for them to restock it; but it was worth it, knee carving, hinge building, leg cutting, felt laying, just everything.

Pam


Cabinetmaker Video (Headley)

Re: Carving Chisels

CBT

>I have found Chris Pye's site to be of help. He has written several great book.

www.chrispye-woodcarving.com

He lists recommended tools on his sight and of course in his books.

CBT

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Gerry Mayberry

>Pam: Thanks very much for the link on Headley. I also have his shell carving video which helped me carve shells on some chair crest rails and cabriole knees. Making Classic Chairs(Fox Chapel) is good but I think the two articles in FWW that I mentioned are more helpful to understanding that complex rear joint. Clarkson does have a bandsaw jig in the book for that rear rail/stile joint. He focuses more on carving the chair. At the back of the FWW 2000 issue is a Master Class article on how to cut the rear rail joint on a table saw. In retrospect, I have to agree with something I read somewhere; if you want to learn chairmaking, build six. By then you will have gone through most of the normal mistakes and corrected them! I will definitely look for the Headley video. Thanks.

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I see carving cabriole knees as very difficult. You have to somehow calculate how much bigger to make the blank to accommodate what fielding will take away, all the while maintaining the lines with the rest of the leg, then bend the shape around the leg without distortion. Headley just draws right on what appears to be a perfectly proportioned leg and starts carving away without further explanation, apparently no problems, all the while chatting about good and bad carvers (OK, this is a voice over, but still). Does Clarkson explain all this?

Thanks,

Pam, who's off to make chair #3 :)

Re: Furniture carving instruction

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>It seems to me that Headley is doing it the right way. From an edge on view, you will see the lines of the high spots, left after the carving is done. Your eyes will follow the high points and just bleep over the carved out areas. If you leave extra when you do the initial shaping, then the carving will look like it has been pasted onto the surface. For legs, that looks unnatural. Shells on crest rails, and seat rails are different. Allowance must be made so that they stand out above flat fields and joinery.

Of course, I don't take much risk agreeing with someone with the credentials of Mark Headley :^) Another thing to consider is that in the furniture shops in the 18th century, the joiner who built the chair and shaped the legs was probably not the same person who did the carving. The joiner would have shaped the legs the same, regardless of whether it was to end up plain or with fancy decorations. Probably why shells were often applied.

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'm sure he is doing it right. Sorry if it sounded like I was questioning him, meant only to comment on how easy he made it seem, maybe complain a bit about the lack of explanation. But then the target market for this tape is probably not just woodworkers, I'm sure they'd love to sell to lots of regular people, antique collectors, and the like.

I guess the trick is to blend the depression of the carved out areas with the uncarved leg line. And of course you're right, the carving must align with the leg as originally cut. Headley says the carver was sometimes the cabinet maker, sometimes not, depending on who was about when the piece was made; thus the carving quality varied a lot.

Good point about the joiner shaping the legs the same regardless of decoration. Were shells ever applied to legs? I agree that it would look unnatural. Maybe you're saying they were applied when possible, to rails?

Pam

Re: Furniture carving instruction

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I just figured, since we were talking about it online, some of those readers might be interested in subtlties of 18th century craft. I had spent some time thinking about laying out carving on knees before I figured out the reasons for deciding for myself that was the right way to do it.

"Ever" is an awfully strong word. I don't have access to lots of 18th century chairs, especially with the opportunity to take them apart, so I haven't taken a survey :^)

Applying shells with glue and pins to the flat front surfaces of rails is the easy and straighforward way to do it, because the shell doesn't get in the way of the joinery. Applying shells to knees would be very difficult, since the shaped surface of the knee is not flat. I've seen strange things done, especially when someone sees something that they want to reproduce, but have no easy way to learn the methods used to build the original. I haven't seen applied decoration on knees, at least none that was obviously applied. Patches, to repair damage, yes, but not wholesale application. It just doesn't seem to be the efficient way to do it.

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I see, I've also been thinking this through, all the "why doesn't he do this and that" exercises. I agree that applying a form to the leg would be incredibly difficult; but I'd bet manufacturers have worked this out with shapers and other machinery.

Pam

Source for video

Jim Cosgrove

>Pam,

Where do you find the video "The Cabinetmaker: Crafting a Card Table" w/Headley. I have heard about this before but have not seen it.

Thanks for any info,

Jim

Sorry! Found the info in later post! NM

Jim Cosgrove

>

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Jim Cosgrove

>On the 18th century pieces that I have copied, knees with shells are left a bit fat to allow for the carving. The carving (often a shell) stands proud of the leg. The leg has to flow naturally underneath the shell. The shell almost looks applied, but of course it is not. That is the magic of the carver. One thing about period carving is that it often is not very deep. One only needs to create a shadow line. Often an 1/8 or 3/16 of an inch is enough.

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Gerry Mayberry

>Pam: The trick is to apply a pattern correctly to the knee, left a bit proud, and carve around the pattern approximately 1/8 inch or so deep to elevate it from the background. It isn't all that difficult. I am at best an intermediate carver and I have done several. Check out " Making Classic Carved Furniture", Ron Clarkson and Tom Heller, Shiffler Publishing,Ltd, 1994. The book describes step-by-step construction of a cabriole leg stool, with trifid feet and shell carving on the knees. They show how to apply the pattern and include a shell pattern that you can copy from the book. I found the book to be very helpful in laying out and carving shells on cabriole knees.

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>OK, thanks, found a fairly cheap copy, this is going to be great fun.

Pam

Re: Furniture carving instruction

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Jim, very encouraging, sounds like it's time for me to stop watching and reading, time to get to work.

Pam