Two Cherries vs Hirsch chisels *LINK*

General European tool marks *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>Another great page telling you the history behind trademarks on European tools


http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/europaeisch.phtml

an answer

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>Robert Larson, Larson Company and US distributor of Two Cherries, told me that the steel in the two brands is the same, only the finish and handle is different. He said that he has been to the factory.

What about Bracht chisels?

Frank Mutchler

>Aren't they of German Mfg.? I didn't find their mark listed.

stamp

Tom Williams

>Andrew,

My Two Cherries chisels have their logo stamped into the blade, making them unmistakably unusable for relabeling as Hirsch. I don't believe Hirsch chisels have any markings other than perhaps their width in mm. But the raw materials and even the processing techniques might be identical up to the point of stamping. Similar high marks on steel quality would support this. They also seem to share that notorious catalyzed lacquer dip at the end, too.

Tom

Thanks Bill.

Andrew F in Australia

>Hirsh used to be at No95 Konigstrasse and two cherries were at No59, so I guessed they'd merged production. Stranger things have happenned but.

At least now we can say with certainty that they're one and the same.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: What about Bracht chisels? *LINK*

Andrew F in Australia

>It's there, now also owned by the same company as two cherries, etc...


http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/bracht.phtml

more Info.

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I was told by Mr. Larson that once there were many small tool making companies in Europe but over time they have all been bought by Hirsch or Pfiel, or is it Pfeil. I have no first hand knowledge, but I expect Mr. Larson, as a major US importer of European carving tools, should know. He has an interesting daughter should you ever meet her at a show.

Re: Two Cherries vs Hirsch chisels

Wolfgang Jordan

>Hi,

Andrew pointed this discussion out to me. The pages about German manufacturers he mentioned are mine, but I have to say that I don't know much about current production and relations between manufacturers. Concerning steel type I would trust the information given by Robert Larson. He also seems to be correct about the concentration of the few remaining tool companies. The data I found in a German phone directory suggest, that seven companies belong to the Wilhelm Schmitt group. Schmitt himself makes the Kirschen tools (two cherries brand). Then there is 'Gebr�der Busch' (not 'shrub', maker of the Hirsch brand), 'Jacob Busch' ('Spanns�ge'), Heinrich Bracht and others. Some day I will try to dig up more information. But as a collector of old tools I am more interested in old (as in 'closed down') companies.

Wolfgang

Thanks for the reply, Wolfgang

Andrew F in Australia

>

Re: Two Cherries vs Hirsch chisels

Michael Blake

>In Issue #139 of December 1999 of Fine Woodworking magazine, the author of the article titled "Bench Chisel Review", page52, states that he called Higland Hardware in Atlanta (a Hirsch dealer) and was told that the Hirsch and Two Cherries brand chisels were "made side by side in the same plant".

Although the blades appear to be identical, the handle shapes of the BENCH chisels are different. However, Lee Valley offers a line of Hirsch FIRMER chisels with handles identical to Two Cherries BENCH chisels.

To further complicate this discussion, the Wood Carvers Supply Co. website offers a line of Lamp Brand FIRMER chisels with handles that appear to be identical to the Two Cherries Bench and Hirsch Firmer chisels. The owner of this company claims in his catalog that the Lamp Brand carving chisels are manufactured exclusively for him, to his specifications for over two decades in Germany.

It certainly appears that all three of these brand names are produced by the same manufacturer in Germany. I'd love to know if my conclusion is correct.!

Michael Blake

Silver Spring, Maryland

Re: Two Cherries vs Hirsch chisels

Christof Hartge

>Hello Michael,

I hope I know what you are doing. You are diving in to the deep grounds of tool-manufacturers in Remscheid-Solingen. You know a big lot of knifemakers, saw makers, chiselmakers, planemakers, bulked up just there, Like Eskilstune in Sweden or Sheffield in England.

As you can easily perceive, production is shared, blade making is one thing handle making another and so on. They buyed names of ruined firms, they take over a certain production line and so on. To make things short, we German Woodworkers never figured really out, who is who and who made a certain products.

Some firmes are prooved: Two cherries, ECE and Dastra.

Two Cherries (Wilhelm Schmitt) makes a wide variety of chisels plane irons and carving irons. The width of chisel go from 2mm to 50 mm. They are produced bevelled, firmer and bevelled, unbevelled and mortise chisels. They also have plane-irons in their production line, noone makes planes for any longer.

I'm not sure they produce the handles themselves, so most probably you did have Two Cherries irons and handles from whomsoever.

Christof.