Do I have this correct?

Re: Do I have this correct?

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Nick,

There's a tempering step left off at the end. Just in the past week, Scott Post provided a full illustrated sequence of hardening and tempering that will really help you. It's a great post.

Wiley

Re: Do I have this correct?

Rusty Miller

>Nick,

Where do you live in Abilene? I live in Tye just west of you. You're the first person I've seen on here from this area.

Rusty-Tye, TX

Re: Do I have this correct?

Randy Johnson Connersville, IN

>The oven step might soften it up to a degree, but to really aneal it you need to heat to critical temperature (the point at which it is no longer magnetic) and immerse in a large volume of wood ash. Doing this will result in the file being as soft as regular low carbon steel. The purpose of the wood ash is to allow it to cool over a period of several hours rather than a few minutes.

Re: Do I have this correct?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I do not think that step-3 will anneal it properly, and you left out a sixth step, tempering (actually, if I understand correctly, if you made step-3 into step-6, it would provide the tempering necessary).

what is the objective?

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>If the objective is to make the best cutting tool it is imperitive to start with good annealed steel and heat treat it optimumly. So for this objective you buy the annealed steel (there are at least a dozen good steels to choose from) from a knife or tool room supplier, shape it and then send it off to a heat treater. You will be guaranteed to produce an excellent cutting tool for your efforts.

If the objective is to make a good cutting tool and have more participation, then buy some annealed O-1 steel and you can do your own heat treating and have a chance of an acceptable result.

Given all the work necessary to convert a piece of steel into a cutting tool I do not see the benefit of starting with a poor steel such as a file when good steels are readily available and cheap.

Poor Steel ?

Todd Hughes

>I am sort of surprised to hear that a major old File maker such as say Nicholson, Disston, Simmonds, Etc. used "Poor Steel" to make thier files. Kind of think if they used such poor steels they wouldn't have been in the file making bussiness for so many years and sold so many files to so many satisfied users....What exactly is it about the steel that is used in these files that makes it so bad?....Todd

a guess

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I would guess that the quality and appropriatness of the steel for a $7 file (composition as well as quality control and manufacturing process) would not be as good as the quality of steel intended for tool or cutlery steel. The price companies are willing to pay for these two materials suggests this guess is accurate.

If the objective of the exercise is the making, then files and rail spikes and auto leaf springs are fine raw materials. There is a certain charm in a knife made from a Chevy spring. If the objective is to make the best performing tool, then the best steel and heat treating is called for, especially given the considerable effort involved. And there are shades between these extremes. The point of my post was to make these choices clear.

Re: Poor Steel ?

Bob Hackett

>As you probably know Todd,the problem is not so much the steel as the fact that it has already been worked once and has stresses in it from the process of being forged into a file.Not the least of which are the stress risers caused by the machining if the file teeth.While it may not be a problem for an accomplished smith who realizes that the stresses are still there even if the teeth are ground off,it still may be setting a new metalworker up for failure.The only thing worse than having a tool not turn out right is to have a tool fail when least expected and hurt someone in the process.

I`d recomend annealed O1 from a reputable source to a new metalworker for a first project.The cost is minimal,and the chances of success go up at least 10 fold.Once you get the hang of things then go to working with steel that may fight or fail you.Just my .02,worth exactly what you paid for it.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Poor Steel ?

Randy Johnson Connersville, IN

>At least one nationly known knife maker (Jim Rubley) always made, and as far as I know, still does, his knives from Nicolson files. His explanation was that Nicolson always used 1095 so he knew what he was dealing with.

Any stresses caused by machineing from a previous use should be removed if the metal is properly annealed. At any rate, the process of forging would introduce a whole new set of stresses anyway. My personal feeling is that a blade or chisel forged to shape is superior to one filed or ground to shape.

Hardening and tempering is a lot like religion. There are several "true" ways. Two makers with rock solid reputations can have very different approaches to getting the same results. During my blacksmithing phase I made a number of pattern welded blades. Although most makers recomend drawing back (tempering) these blades, I never did. My reasoning was that the thin layers of low carbon steel should reinforce the thin layers of high carbon steel. Plus the fact that there is carbon migration in the welding process and what started out 1095 might be 1080 by the time the blade reached final quench. One of the few blades I have been able to keep track of skined a LOT of deer before it had to me resharpened so my method must have worked even though some would argue against it.

Re: Do I have this correct?

Nick at Abilene, Texas

>Thanks, I am a beginner, so I'll check for some O1 steel.

I was wondering cause some of the articles about guys using files, old motorcycle parts etc. and have quite an impressive array of tools for WW.

I'll get to the old leaf spring tools later HAHA.

Anyway, much appreciated. Nick

Read BOTH questions

Bob Hackett

>We`re not talking experienced smiths here(as I stated in my post).And we`re not trying to add to the process.The question was,"How do I successfully make a knife the first time around,if I have NO metalworking experience".At least that`s what I read it to be.

I can make a fine knife from a file,and yes,1095 is good steel.I can also weld overhead and run a lathe and milling machine too.That doesn`t mean it can be done by every other person on the planet.

I`m saying that if you want to make a useable knife,using grinding as opposed to forging,and want a better than average shot at success the first time around,buy the annealed O1 from a supplier or better yet,a local bladesmith.

Later on,after you have become an accomplished smith(because your first project worked out fine and you still use it)make the pieces out of anything you pull from the scrapyard.

Think,FIRST TIMER,working on his own with little to no knowledge here and I think you`ll agree it`s a no brainer.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Read BOTH questions

Nick at Abilene, Texas

>Yes, very well put. I'll let those files at the fleamarket set awhile longer.

Thanks for your input and time.

Nick